Backyard Brahmas!!

[livininbrazil]

I'm not an expert rooster analyst, but I think the aggressive behavior would make the situation worse. I agree with the other statement about holding the rooster down instead. It's the same with rams. We would never hit our ram or rub his head--they see it as a challenge and you want to fight them. Sort of like "bring it on." I've only had one mean rooster and we didn't keep him. I'm very patient, but if I've tried everything, then he's got to be culled. He was a blue andalusian and super mean. My oldest brahma roo is a sweetie. My two new ones seem so frightened of me, but are still mellow, as a brahma is. I love the brahma roosters. I'd never get a blue andalusian again though. He would flog me any time I was around.

Brahmas are delightful aren´t they? They´re my favourite out of the various "breeds" I have here. My ISA hens are tame, I can pick them up, but they can be a bit spiteful to other birds. My Dels are very smart, but bolshy and very stubborn and not so easy to get hold of, although I raised them from tiny. My Brahmas are so sweet-natured, easy to handle even though they free-range, by far my favourites. Are your new ones youngsters? I always find they go through this teenage phase when they get independent from the hen, and they get quite silly and scaredy-cat, say "run from the monster.." (me)

then after a while they get sensible again.

 

[Gryphon]

Jumping in on the rooster discussion here. While I'm new to chickens just this year, I've worked with horses for many years and humans don't seem to realize how much of a discussion there is with just a look, and that seems to translate to chickens as well since they're highly visual creatures. A lot of the time I've seen people comment about a mean hen or roo giving someone the stink eye, and I wonder "Why are you permitting such disrespect?" If a horse was glaring at me, I'd take that as "I'm the boss of you, I want you to move away from me or I'll step it up!" I'm sure everyone has seen how chickens will move each other around with just a look, never mind a glare (focused energy/intent/whatever with attitude behind it) by the time it's reached glare level, that's "I'M GONNA MESS YOU UP!" instead of "Move away, I'm the boss." Neither one is acceptable from an animal (if you don't want to end up hurt anyway) but one is much stronger than the other, and didn't happen overnight.

For those used to dogs, it'd be like if you were putting food in a dog's bowl and they rumbled a warning at you. Stop it early on, and you don't have to deal with getting bitten down the road. Ignore it though, and eventually it turns into growling, baring of teeth, and snapping. I'm wondering if people are missing signals which is giving "mean" chickens the idea that the human is backing down each time, which means they need to take control of the situation since obviously SOMEONE needs to be the boss.

 

[CarolinaHen]

Jumping in on the rooster discussion here. While I'm new to chickens just this year, I've worked with horses for many years and humans don't seem to realize how much of a discussion there is with just a look, and that seems to translate to chickens as well since they're highly visual creatures. A lot of the time I've seen people comment about a mean hen or roo giving someone the stink eye, and I wonder "Why are you permitting such disrespect?" If a horse was glaring at me, I'd take that as "I'm the boss of you, I want you to move away from me or I'll step it up!" I'm sure everyone has seen how chickens will move each other around with just a look, never mind a glare (focused energy/intent/whatever with attitude behind it) by the time it's reached glare level, that's "I'M GONNA MESS YOU UP!" instead of "Move away, I'm the boss." Neither one is acceptable from an animal (if you don't want to end up hurt anyway) but one is much stronger than the other, and didn't happen overnight.

For those used to dogs, it'd be like if you were putting food in a dog's bowl and they rumbled a warning at you. Stop it early on, and you don't have to deal with getting bitten down the road. Ignore it though, and eventually it turns into growling, baring of teeth, and snapping. I'm wondering if people are missing signals which is giving "mean" chickens the idea that the human is backing down each time, which means they need to take control of the situation since obviously SOMEONE needs to be the boss.

I completely agree. The earlier you stop the behavior, the easier it is to correct. I made the mistake when we first got chickens of thinking that if I showered the cockerels with love and affection they would turn out to b kind and affectionate roosters. WRONG! Every one I've let sit on my shoulder and jump on my lap at will has had to be rehomed.
Then I learned from a very wise person to save my affection for the girls and teach the boys manners. Since then I've had no problems with my guys. We currently have fiv that free range in our backyard together. All five politely move out of my way and wait to be offered treats.

 

[livininbrazil]

I liked your explanation and analysis Gryphon, spot on.

Carolina Hen, I once came across a gander that had been the solitary goose in the house, brought up since a tiny gosling by the wife, but it was a nuisance. It hadn´t learned respect. Everyone else in her family was frightened of it, and I think she was, too. It ended up being re-homed.

A friend of mine had some geese and thought it funny to run away from them before they got him, but then it made it more difficult for his wife who was unsure of them, but their son never was frightened and could anything with them. I never ran away from them, they never bothered me. Everyone said I was brave. Not really, I just had confidence. I had 3 of their goslings!

 

[Vickis Girls]

Wow, excellent information. Please tell me how to teach manners, as I have some younger cockerels and don't want to make the same mistakes with them. So should I be ignoring them and just letting the girls sit on my lap? Maybe the warning signs were there, but I didn't recognize any of them. When he first started the growling sound, he had just learned to crow and I thought it might be related. I had no Idea he was human aggressive until I noticed he didn't do that in front of the dogs, just people. All this was in the last 3 weeks. Please help me be a better chicken keeper. CarolinaHen, you have 5 roos? how many hens free range with them?

 

[Gryphon]

One thing that will help you out a lot is to be aware of when they're testing you. Some people are very perceptive about this kind of thing, others need to be taught. (it's not a deficiency if you don't see it right away, animals "speak" far more subtly than your average person is like to notice. Of course, humans actually "speak" the same way. You can tell when someone is being aggressive towards another person even if they don't say a word, just by stance/attitude/look/etc. Most people just pay more attention to words, and need to re-learn how to read body language.)

If you have any hens dominant over your cockerel, watch what she does. She doesn't constantly peck him to death, she just lets him know that she's not going to take any lip from him and that's that. A big part of it is EXPECTING them to behave, and instantly correcting them ( with a glare, pushing them out of your space, making them pay attention to you rather than doing their own thing, whatever) You'll see that with a dominant hen, she'll just waltz right over to whatever area she wants, and only if everyone doesn't scatter does she go "HEY! Move your fluffy butt!" and THEN focus her attention on the offender. Any "herd" animal is the same, they're inherently lazy (need to conserve energy for more important things, like running for your life) so it's 90% threats, and only comes to blows when a hard lesson needs to be given. You don't have to be cruel to let an animal know where it's position in the hierarchy is (well below you or any human) just like a dominant hen isn't cruel most of the time (always exceptions to the rule, of course).

So what this means is you have to do even more of what you're doing, watching chicken tv. ^_^ Instead of just enjoying the show though, you're actively analyzing what's going on and why. Can you tell what the rank of each of your birds is? Who's the top hen, who's her second in command, all down the line? If you're able to tell that, then it should be easier to figure our just how they tell each other to bug off or else.

 

[Vickis Girls]

Thanks, Gryphon. I just feel so stupid. The one we just re-homed was of course the chief cockerel, and I couldn't tell in which order the next three(girls) were in, but the following three(two months younger) were last, and I have no idea in what order. Now that the one is gone, I see the younger ones jockeying for position, and they're going to be bigger than the girls.This is my first year with chickens, and I thought I had read a lot, but obviously I hadn't read anything about cockerels. Nor did I read about the chances of hatching all males. I'm scared to death, and wonder if I should just let them free range and maybe they can work it out better than in the (very large)coop and run.

 

[Vickis Girls]

Oh my gosh...I think I'm finally getting it. So the best thing to do is treat the ladies like they're our friends and treat the cockerels like they're our chickens? So if the younger ones aren't crowing yet do you think it's too late? Another question: I've always taken each one out of the window because it's cold up there, and also if they fall during the night they might get hurt. Should I leave the girls? Maybe they're showing they're above the others? What about this one who I just don't know the gender of who also gets up there. In case he's male should I not handle him to bring him down? Does that even matter? Any ideas?

 

[Gryphon]

I'd never say it's too late in general, even for an older bird depending on temperament/smarts they can figure it out as long as you're consistent. (again, there's always exceptions)

What's the temperature where you're at? Because the last few nights it got below freezing weather here and all my girls did fine in an unheated coop. They all have adult standard feathering (not frizzled, which has problems retaining heat). Do your chickens fall often? I've never heard of chickens just falling (maybe getting a timely shove from a dominant hen who wants that spot, but that's only when everyone's settling in for the night and not in the middle of the night) If your birds are full grown (or at least large pullets) they should be able to walk their own fluffy butts up to where they want to roost on their own power, and get down again.

I'm the kind of person who would only blanket a horse if it was going to rain and then freeze though, nature and evolution has provided a lovely coat that does a far better job of keeping an animal warm than any person can provide.

 

[Vickis Girls]

First of all, thank you so much for keeping an eye on this thread...I'll be tucking them in in an hour. A couple weeks ago it was 5 below. last night was 25 above. I'm not worried about them staying warm enough most of the time, even though the coop is unheated. Our normal winter lows are in the upper 20's, and high's in the mid 30's.Once the snow comes we usually stay a pretty constant 32 degrees day and night. Last night I actually left the girls up there. Does that indicate a higher pecking order? Should they be left to sleep wherever? Should I just lock up and leave? Should I just pet the girls? I've peen talking to them until they began falling asleep. I hope I can figure out what I'm doing pretty soon. Thank you!!!!

Edit to say, I don't think they've fallen, just thought they might. Also, everyone has plenty of feathers.