Backyard Brahmas!!

[theuglychick]

One rule of keeping roosters is they should never be allowed around small children for one reason: kids of a certain young age are boistrous, loud, make jerky movements, etc. They make even the calmest rooster nervous. And a large rooster like a Brahma can really hurt a child. That doesn't necessarily mean he's "aggressive", but that he is being stressed by that child. A kid is a different thing than aggression for aggression's sake toward his keepers.

Older kids can be taught the way to act around a rooster, but a toddler may be the same height as a big rooster and all it takes is one well-placed flog to take out a child's eyes. That is not the rooster's fault. Even my superbly sweet and calm Delaware rooster was visibly nervous when a neighbor's young grandchildren were screaming and running across the road from us and he could not even see them. I would never allow a young child in with any of my roosters. You really must think of it like a stallion or a bull in smaller, more agile form. He has a job to do and he reacts to stress caused by a kid's loud, raucous noise and fast movements. And if a child chases a rooster, well, sorry, he's going to react and I seriously do not blame him! None of my LF roosters were in the least aggressive but small kids acting the way small kids do made them very on edge.

So word to the wise, keep young kids away from the roosters until they can learn how to act around one and be much taller than the rooster is.

Great advice! We put up with it for as long as we could, I tried all the "rehabilitative methods," ignoring, football carrying, redirecting his attention (yea, right), bla, bla, bla, then when I found out I was pregnant, I gave him to a more (rooster) experienced friend who wanted another too to protect his hens and was convinced he could deal with him. He was so mean the friend gave up and introduced him to the stew pot within a week.

@SD Bird Lady I like the 3 strikes rule. I'm going to employ it with my new boys.

I'm really hoping for at least one good /neutral boy. I've read about people having success with raising multiple Roos together, with 3 being a good number, and them keeping each other busy enough that their aggression is less directed toward people. I'm hoping that it won't backfire and result in me being flogged by a gang of people-hating roosters.

I'm also going to handle the boys less than I did that **** Pecker Roo. (that was his name). He was an easter chic, and was probably over indulged in handling and became a little too comfortable around people, or grew to loathe being handled.

I know there's no magic trick for making Roos tolerant of people, and getting a good one is more luck of the draw, but any other thoughts on roos?

 

[speckledhen]

Great advice! We put up with it for as long as we could, I tried all the "rehabilitative methods," ignoring, football carrying, redirecting his attention (yea, right), bla, bla, bla, then when I found out I was pregnant, I gave him to a more (rooster) experienced friend who wanted another too to protect his hens and was convinced he could deal with him. He was so mean the friend gave up and introduced him to the stew pot within a week.

@SD Bird Lady I like the 3 strikes rule. I'm going to employ it with my new boys.

I'm really hoping for at least one good /neutral boy. I've read about people having success with raising multiple Roos together, with 3 being a good number, and them keeping each other busy enough that their aggression is less directed toward people. I'm hoping that it won't backfire and result in me being flogged by a gang of people-hating roosters.

I'm also going to handle the boys less than I did that **** Pecker Roo. (that was his name). He was an easter chic, and was probably over indulged in handling and became a little too comfortable around people, or grew to loathe being handled.

I know there's no magic trick for making Roos tolerant of people, and getting a good one is more luck of the draw, but any other thoughts on roos?

Actually, it isn't just the luck of the draw, though with hatchery stock, you are at the mercy of bad breeding with no culling for desirable traits, including temperament. I have a line of males that are non-human aggressive. In fact, I dont think I've heard of one being aggressive to his human handlers from this bunch I breed from. You select for temperament. It's heritable, though with living creatures, there is no 100% guarantee. Breed from the best, cull the rest. NO human-aggressive male would get to reproduce here.

You cannot fix what is in his genetics, no matter what some will tell you. When they are very young, pre-breeding age, they may test boundaries by biting, but you can usually fix that issue, IF they are not pre-programmed to aggression anyway. If it progresses to flogging, not much chance you can change him.

The only exception might be for the breeds that the males are known to be not as predictable, like my little Belgian D'anvers. I think you could also select for temperament in those, but no one seems to have tried it and I'm not going to because I'm getting out of them now anyway.

 

[theuglychick]

Actually, it isn't just the luck of the draw, though with hatchery stock, you are at the mercy of bad breeding with no culling for desirable traits, including temperament. I have a line of males that are non-human aggressive. In fact, I dont think I've heard of one being aggressive to his human handlers from this bunch I breed from. You select for temperament. It's heritable, though with living creatures, there is no 100% guarantee. Breed from the best, cull the rest. NO human-aggressive male would get to reproduce here.

You cannot fix what is in his genetics, no matter what some will tell you. When they are very young, pre-breeding age, they may test boundaries by biting, but you can usually fix that issue, IF they are not pre-programmed to aggression anyway. If it progresses to flogging, not much chance you can change him.

The only exception might be for the breeds that the males are known to be not as predictable, like my little Belgian D'anvers. I think you could also select for temperament in those, but no one seems to have tried it and I'm not going to because I'm getting out of them now anyway.

Great advice. If these don't work out, I'll see who is local to me that may have some less reactive stock that they are willing to part with. I'll take a lazy or neutral roo of any breed over an aggressive one of my favorite breeds any day!

 

[speckledhen]

Great advice. If these don't work out, I'll see who is local to me that may have some less reactive stock that they are willing to part with. I'll take a lazy or neutral roo of any breed over an aggressive one of my favorite breeds any day!

I agree. My roosters are not required to be cuddly, however, they must be intelligent enough not to bite/flog the hand that feeds them. From my experience, it seems to me that the more intelligent ones know who brings the food, water and treats and accept the hierarchy of the humans over them. Generally, the dumb ones attack the very ones who feed and protect them. Hence, Belgian D'anver males-definitely not the brightest bulbs in the package. The hens are super sweet, the males vary from rabid pitbull to almost friendly. I have one who ignores me unless I have a camera or phone in my hand or he's especially spunky that day, though he used to love sneak attacks. His son is much more amiable, but still hates to be touched. He will nip me if I don't give him his treats fast enough, but he has only flogged me once in his over three years of life.

 

[SD Bird Lady]

I agree that kids and roosters usually don't mix. But, that's why I dont tolerate much in the way of aggression. To me its no different than a biting dog, an aggressive stud horse, or the herd bull. Roosters may be small but they can do a lot of damage. Our last EE rooster was all about flight, no fight and he was perfect for our family.... So it can be done. That being said, you have to know your goals and stick with them. If we have a bird that doesn't fit they go.

 

[speckledhen]

I agree that kids and roosters usually don't mix. But, that's why I dont tolerate much in the way of aggression. To me its no different than a biting dog, an aggressive stud horse, or the herd bull. Roosters may be small but they can do a lot of damage. Our last EE rooster was all about flight, no fight and he was perfect for our family.... So it can be done. That being said, you have to know your goals and stick with them. If we have a bird that doesn't fit they go.

Neither do I tolerate aggression, but I rarely have children here to have to think about. And I agree, even a small bantam rooster can still fly up and hurt a child. A Brahma or an Orpington has mass more than agility, but either way, kids need to be kept away except under strict supervision until they are much taller/older. Just have to use common sense about the situation. A rooster who avoids human contact is just fine, but yeah, one that you cannot trust at all MUST go. I like the smart boys because I want smart progeny. And the smart guys just overall seem to be able to discern who is truly a threat and who is not.

If I see that my calm boys are becoming nervous, I take whatever is causing it away from them. I think sometimes, roosters are like dogs or horses in that they sense people who are bad news. So a rooster may have never given you a lick of trouble, but a stranger they don't like or trust may be in for a spur-fest. That would be one of those rare instances, I'd say, though.

 

[SD Bird Lady]

I agree,

...

Neither do I tolerate aggression, but I rarely have children here to have to think about. And I agree, even a small bantam rooster can still fly up and hurt a child. A Brahma or an Orpington has mass more than agility, but either way, kids need to be kept away except under strict supervision until they are much taller/older. Just have to use common sense about the situation. A rooster who avoids human contact is just fine, but yeah, one that you cannot trust at all MUST go. I like the smart boys because I want smart progeny. And the smart guys just overall seem to be able to discern who is truly a threat and who is not.

If I see that my calm boys are becoming nervous, I take whatever is causing it away from them. I think sometimes, roosters are like dogs or horses in that they sense people who are bad news. So a rooster may have never given you a lick of trouble, but a stranger they don't like or trust may be in for a spur-fest. That would be one of those rare instances, I'd say, though.
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I agree, it's amazing how they can tell who means trouble. Our dog is that way; I'm not sure what happened or why, but he doesn't like our friend's little boy. Gets very nervous and clingy and if cornered will nip so we put the dog in the garage when they come for a visit. He isn't a bad dog, but for some reason there is bad blood there and its easier and safer to keep them separate. Haven't trouble with anyone else before.

 

[theuglychick]

Ok, one more question. I know that with some roosters, sudden movements or weird body language can set them off. With a "good" rooster, would certain movements or body language be anything that I would have to worry about? My last roo would charge when I turned my back or moved toward him? Just wondering if everyday mundane movement would provoke a "good" roo? Or is that something I would only see in a people-aggressive/reactive roo? Also, do these little devil Roos show signs of early people-aggression that could be missed or misinterpreted as "friendly" behavior as a cockeral? I would like to weed the bad eggs out sooner than later, if possible.

 

[speckledhen]

Ok, one more question. I know that with some roosters, sudden movements or weird body language can set them off. With a "good" rooster, would certain movements or body language be anything that I would have to worry about? My last roo would charge when I turned my back or moved toward him? Just wondering if everyday mundane movement would provoke a "good" roo? Or is that something I would only see in a people-aggressive/reactive roo? Also, do these little devil Roos show signs of early people-aggression that could be missed or misinterpreted as "friendly" behavior as a cockeral? I would like to weed the bad eggs out sooner than later, if possible.

Normally, not a problem if he's a good one. Rushing at you behind your back is true aggression ramping up. I can grab Atlas off a hen or get in front of him and stop him from grabbing one, herd him places he doesn't really want to go, etc, and he's never turned on me, never even nipped me. He's super sweet, just like his father and his father's father.

But, a situation can change a good rooster's behavior late in life. Surviving a predator attack can do that. Happened to a young rooster out of my own easygoing lines. A friend had him, super good boy, then there was a raccoon attack in a pen next to his in the large mutli-pen coop. She immediately moved him to his own small coop with his hens and he changed overnight. He became psychotic, literally hitting the inside of the door if he sensed someone coming inside his coop, attacking anything and everything for no reason. He just went nuts and had to be euthanized. It was very sad, but definitely related to the raccoon attack that killed several birds.

Happened to me with a year-and-a-half old rooster, previously just as good and easygoing as you'd ever want-he was out of my hatchery line years ago. The hens were eating his comb and wattles every night on the roost and he was always scabby and bleeding. So, I began separating him at night. Did it for two weeks, and one day when I got him from his hens to put in the night coop, he whirled around and bit the fire out of my hand. Next, he's rush me, trying to intimidate me. He eventually did full-on attack me. His eyes even changed. You could see his aggression, the "just you wait, I'll get you yet, lady", whereas, previously, he had a soft expression. We were about to cull him when a friend, bless her heart, said she wanted to take him and give him a second chance. He did flog her, but he became one of her favorites. She had owned his brother for awhile as well, who was super sweet and never showed any aggression at all. That age is very late in life for it to be the average type of aggression. So, situations can change behavior.


The behavior you want to observe is when they start breeding the hens. That's when they are super hormonal. If they are not aggressive then and continue to be easygoing, they will be okay, most likely.

 

[theuglychick]

Normally, not a problem if he's a good one. I can grab Atlas off a hen or get in front of him and stop him from grabbing one, herd him places he doesn't really want to go, etc, and he's never turned on me, never even nipped me. He's super sweet, just like his father and his father's father.

But, a situation can change a good rooster's behavior late in life.  Surviving a predator attack can do that. Happened to a young rooster out of my own easygoing lines. A friend had him, super good boy, then there was a raccoon attack in a pen next to his in the large mutli-pen coop. She immediately moved him to his own small coop with his hens and he changed overnight. He became psychotic, literally hitting the inside of the door if he sensed someone coming inside his coop, attacking anything and everything for no reason. He just went nuts and had to be euthanized. It was very sad, but definitely related to the raccoon attack that killed several birds.

Happened to me with a year-and-a-half old rooster, previously just as good and easygoing as you'd ever want-he was out of my hatchery line years ago. The hens were eating his comb and wattles every night on the roost and he was always scabby and bleeding. So, I began separating him at night. Did it for two weeks, and one day when I got him from his hens to put in the night coop, he whirled around and bit the fire out of my hand. Next, he's rush me, trying to intimidate me. He eventually did full-on attack me. His eyes even changed. You could see his aggression, the "just you wait, I'll get you yet, lady", whereas, previously, he had a soft expression. We were about to cull him when a friend, bless her heart, said she wanted to take him and give him a second chance. He did flog her, but he became one of her favorites. She had owned his brother for awhile as well, who was super sweet and never showed any aggression at all. That age is very late in life for it to be the average type of aggression. So, situations can change behavior.


The behavior you want to observe is when they start breeding the hens. That's when they are super hormonal. If they are not aggressive then and continue to be easygoing, they will be okay, most likely.

Thank you for the great information. I work with dogs and can read them like a book, triggers, escalating stress signals, calming signals, and all. But I don't know all the little things that can lead to an attack from a rooster.