Bad case of wet pox?? help requested

[ChicKat]

I just checked it and it was worse then i expected. Her mouth is full of those 'cheesy' looking plaques. There is also a disgusting smell coming from the plaques. what should i do??

When I had three with wet pox, I lost one, the wet pox closed off her breathing passages. One the wet pox were inside her mouth and closed her ability to swallow, I thought that she was going to die. I put some electrolyte products on a cotton swab and dripped water in the side of her beak. ETA, tipped her head back a little as I did that. The product is called grow-gel, but you can use other products, I'm sure. She recovered. If you have a salve or similar product you could swab the sores. Because pox is a virus, antibiotics don't usually work on a virus, however, they can prevent secondary infection from occurring. A product here in the states 'Vetericyn' seems to help with cures of any animal injury as well as sooth them. Ask around what others use over there.

One cockbird that had it, had one eye swollen shut, then the other -- and for about two days he was completely blind and dependent upon me 100%. Then one eye recovered and subsequently the other.

That was two summers ago. So 66% recovery rate, from that tiny sample population.

You can only watch carefully and monitor the chicken. If the chicken has lasted this long, she will probably be Okay...IMO.


Try to keep her comfortable and stress free, hydrated and hopefully she will recover. Of course keep her isolated so that she doesn't share drinkers or feeders with other chickens in case the virus could shed into water or feeder. She has bright eyes, and looks pretty good in the picture. Hopefully that is an indication that she will pull through and it is on the mend. It does take a long time to run its course, but if she is able to eat and drink -- no matter how bad it may look...it will eventually go away and you will be amazed. The two that I had that recovered left no trace -- looking at them later you never would have known. Although I have no pictures, the one that had her ability to eat reduced, looked quite a bit worse than yours in the picture if that is any help!

 

[biophiliac]

When I had three with wet pox, I lost one, the wet pox closed off her breathing passages. One the wet pox were inside her mouth and closed her ability to swallow, I thought that she was going to die. I put some electrolyte products on a cotton swab and dripped water in the side of her beak. ETA, tipped her head back a little as I did that. The product is called grow-gel, but you can use other products, I'm sure. She recovered. If you have a salve or similar product you could swab the sores. Because pox is a virus, antibiotics don't usually work on a virus, however, they can prevent secondary infection from occurring. A product here in the states 'Vetericyn' seems to help with cures of any animal injury as well as sooth them. Ask around what others use over there.

One cockbird that had it, had one eye swollen shut, then the other -- and for about two days he was completely blind and dependent upon me 100%. Then one eye recovered and subsequently the other.

That was two summers ago. So 66% recovery rate, from that tiny sample population.

You can only watch carefully and monitor the chicken. If the chicken has lasted this long, she will probably be Okay...IMO.


Try to keep her comfortable and stress free, hydrated and hopefully she will recover. Of course keep her isolated so that she doesn't share drinkers or feeders with other chickens in case the virus could shed into water or feeder. She has bright eyes, and looks pretty good in the picture. Hopefully that is an indication that she will pull through and it is on the mend. It does take a long time to run its course, but if she is able to eat and drink -- no matter how bad it may look...it will eventually go away and you will be amazed. The two that I had that recovered left no trace -- looking at them later you never would have known. Although I have no pictures, the one that had her ability to eat reduced, looked quite a bit worse than yours in the picture if that is any help!

I sure am glad you are able to share some encouraging experience. Looking for treatment of wet pox I didn't find much. Do you think he should check the mouths of birds not showing external lesions? Do you know if the copper sulfate solution used for canker lesions(parasite) would help with these that look similar but are viral? Maybe just to prevent secondary problems?

 

[ChicKat]

I sure am glad you are able to share some encouraging experience. Looking for treatment of wet pox I didn't find much. Do you think he should check the mouths of birds not showing external lesions? Do you know if the copper sulfate solution used for canker lesions(parasite) would help with these that look similar but are viral? Maybe just to prevent secondary problems?

Here, I have to honestly say that I do not know. One important thing to most effectively solve problems is to correctly diagnose. For my part I have zero familiarity with canker lesions in chickens...and only became aware when mentioned in this thread.


Because so much of the evidence on the op's post is external, (and again, I don't know about canker) - it would seem, from what I experienced, very similar to the fowl pox. Dry pox -- can just about be ignored from what I understand, it will self-heal. Wet pox can be serious and it also seems that there isn't that much about it, but I didn't do lots of research.

When our chickens are sick or in distress, we will often try experiments -- and as long as it doesn't harm the chicken, then it may be O.K. -- but I also think that there may be a tendency in the USA to over treat and over medicate chickens.

Have you used copper sulfate for any chicken illnesses? I found this backyard chicken post
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/anyone-used-copper-sulfate-before.265111/
and number 7 post rang a bell with me, that I pour it in the septic system to prevent roots from invading - it stays in the water a long time and is poisonous to the plant roots....
The post has some interesting viewpoints, and success stories...

Here's an interesting google result too:
https://www.homesteadingtoday.com/threads/copper-sulfate-for-poultry-pests.512630/

So it sounds like a small dose could be beneficial to chickens. Every day you get to learn something new. Also -- one reference is that it was once called 'blue stone' -- so I'm going to look in the indexes of my old-timey poultry books and also check out Gail Damerow's book in the index for copper sulfate and blue stone.

 

[ChicKat]

RoosterGuy6 - how is your chicken? Thanks to biophiliac, I've done some more digging, see if the text in blue below makes sense to you.

Here is information from Gail Damerow's book The Chicken Health Handbook page 297.

...
"Incubation period ---> 4 - 14 days
Progression ---> spreads slowly (except when spread by mosquitos) lasts 3 to 5 weeks in individual birds.
Symptoms--->In birds of all ages, except newly hatched chicks: transparent wart-like or scabby bumps on face, eyes (can cause blindness), throat and windpipe (possibly becoming large enough to suffocate bird), growing larger until they turn yellow and cheesy; rales or wheezing, nasal or eye discharge, death due to suffocation.
Percentage affected---> low to 100%
Mortality--> up to 50%
Post mortem findings--> yellow or brownish cheesy masses in mouth, upper throat and windpipe anchored by cheese-like roots.
Resembles---> infectious laryngotracheitis, nutritional roup ---- in chicks: biotin deficiency, canker
Diagnosis--> flock history, confirmed postmortem findings, laboratory identification of virus.
Cause--> same as dry pox invading the upper respiratory tract
Transmission--> same as dry pox
Treatment--> If thick discharge interferes with breathing, clear airways with cotton swab coated with iodine....."

"Incubatieperiode ---> 4 - 14 dagen
Progressie ---> verspreidt langzaam (behalve bij verspreiding door muggen) duurt 3 tot 5 weken in individuele vogels.
Symptomen ---> Bij vogels van alle leeftijden, behalve nieuw uitgebroken kuikens: transparante wratvormige of schurftebotsjes op het gezicht, ogen (kan blinden veroorzaken), keel en windpijp (mogelijk groot genoeg worden om vogels te versmolten), groter worden tot ze geel en cheesy worden; rale of ademhaling, neus- of oogontlading, dood als gevolg van verstikking.
Percentage aangetast ---> laag tot 100%
Mortaliteit -> tot 50%
Post mortem bevindingen -> Geel of bruine kaasmassa's in de mond, bovenpijn en windpijp verankerd door kaasachtige wortels.
Lijkt op ---> besmettelijke laryngotracheitis, voedingsriem ---- bij kuikens: biotine deficiëntie, kanker
Diagnose -> kuddegeschiedenis, bevestigde postmortem bevindingen, laboratorium identificatie van virus.
Oorzaak -> hetzelfde als droge pokken die het bovenste luchtweg binnendringen
Transmissie -> hetzelfde als droge pox
Behandeling -> Als dikke afvoer inademt met ademhaling, verwijder de luchtwegen met een katoenen pootje bekleed met jodium ..... "

Okay-- hopefully google translate did a good job. It does remind me that I dabbed the sores with a cotton swab -- is that the "katoenen pootje" in Dutch above...dipped in iodine. The one that was unable to eat, her beak was unable to close due to the swollen sores in her mouth, and I think I dabbed iodine on them too.... "jodium"

And although a bit off topic for the original poster -- I will quote what Gail Damerow says about copper sulfide for the chickens or is it sulfate...

"Anti-fungal Agents
Fungal diseases like viral disease do not respond well to drug treatment. Not only are fungi somewhat impervious to drugs, but durgs interfere with a chicken's natural microflora, making room for fungi to run rampant--the reason fungl infections commonly follow the use of antibiotics in treating other diseases.

Copper sulfate (CuSO4), also known as "powdered bluestone" is toxic to fungi and can be used to prevent or control many fungal diseases. Clean feeders, waterers, and other equipment with a 0.5 percent solution. Treat birsd with a 1:2000 concentration in drinking water (1/2 teaspoon per gallon) every other day for a week. Take care -- a concentration of 1:500 or greater is toxic to chickens. Due to the possibility of a chemical reaction between copper sulfate and galvanized metal, do not use a metal waterer.
Superficial mycotic infections are treated with topical medications such as amphotericin B (trade name fungizone), gentian violet, iodine, and nystatin (trade name Mycostatin, among others). Any drug used to treat a fungal infection (ringworm, athlete's foot etc.) of pets or humans can be tried on a chicken. You can't tell in advance what will work, since fungi are resistant to many drugs. Furthermore successful treatment requires persistence, since a chicken with a superficial fungal diseas infects other birds and reinfects herself. " page 187

One more since I have the book open here by the computer:

"Antiviral Agents
Viruses are difficult to treat with drugs, and to date no safe, broad-spectrum antiviral drug has been discovered. A virus in the environment neither eats nor breathes, and is therefore impervious. Once a virus attaches itself to a cell in a chicken's body, any drug that harms the virus tends also to harm the infected cell. Treatment of viral disease largely involves alleviating symptoms (in a respiratory infection, for example, using a product such as Vick's or VetRx to open up blocked airways)\) and keeping the bird as comfortable as possible while its immune system fights the virus.
Antiviral drugs may soon become available that either keep viruses from invading cells or interfere with their replication within a cell. The most promising of these is interferon. When a virus attacks a cell, the cell produces the natural protein interferon, that keeps the virus from multiplying and infecting additional cells. The problem is that insufficient amounts of interferon are within the body produced to stop an especially virulent virus.
Interferon can be artificially produced and has successfully been used in massive doses to treat a variety of viral disease, including influenza and Newcastle. It may also be combined with vaccines to provide temporary protection while immunity is developing. Interferon may soon become less expensive and more readily available" p. 186-7

Too much information?

Can you see why I love Gail Damerow and wish that everyone had her books?

 

[ChicKat]

Here is a picture of my coclkerel today BTW.

For certain, I think his was dry pox, entirely external and only in that one spot. I thought it was some kind of tumor because it grew so fast, got so big.
His beak is slightly discolored, although the dark streaks could have been there regardless of pox. He is also slightly misshapen. I think I could correct it with an emery board, but I don't think it causes him any problems.
Well see for yourself.

This chicken was affected more because it was so young when it got the pox IMO.

 

[enoryz]

Here is one of mine that had what I'm thinking is fowl pox. I also had another flock that eventually all caught it. We used triple antibiotic ointment. Nothing more you can do. It was a long couple weeks or so until they fell off. I never dealt with the wet pox. Hopefully I never do. It sounds worse. I don't have any pics of the other flock that had it but it looked like puss balls before they turn black and fall off.

 

[biophiliac]

Wow, thanks for that! I have not used copper sulfate myself. I had read of something to swab on the plaques but couldn't remember what, thanks for tracking down the iodine.
Bookmarked this post to re-read more carefully after work. Did the bird you mentioned who couldn't eat survive?
Am I correct these plaques should not be removed manually?

 

[ChicKat]

Yes, the bird did live, that was a big surprise for me, because she went a couple days without being able to eat, and I didn't try to force-feed her. Only put some diluted 'grow gel' in the corner of her mouth dripped in with a Q-tip. I'm thinking that any electrolyte would have worked, including home-made...or 'save-a-chick'.
Yes also, the pox should probably just be left alone, but putting something on them like iodine, Veterycin or other may help ease the pain and speed the healing.
Glad that you triggered my mind to go searching for more.

 

[ChicKat]

Here is one of mine that had what I'm thinking is fowl pox. I also had another flock that eventually all caught it. We used triple antibiotic ointment. Nothing more you can do. It was a long couple weeks or so until they fell off. I never dealt with the wet pox. Hopefully I never do. It sounds worse. I don't have any pics of the other flock that had it but it looked like puss balls before they turn black and fall off.

Beautifully shot pictures. Makes you feel so very sorry for the chickens!!

 

[enoryz]

Thanks @ChicKat we did feel sorry for them. I wish I could find the pics from the other ones. They were older then this pullet so it didn't look as bad. This one was the worse by far. She is fine now. We actually got out first egg this morning.