Bad Reactions to Ivermectin?

[casportpony]

I didn't see Valbazen or Safeguard at my local feed store. I only looked in the poultry section though.

Safeguard or Panacur, liquid or paste (both are 10% fenbendazole and the same amount of either is used) and Valbazen would be in the cattle, goat and horse sections. This is what they look like:












-Kathy

 

[RustyBulleit]

Thanks! I used a syringe like that with my girls. I dosed them at .8 cc or .8 ml, however you chose to measure. Why is it that horse wormer is the preferred to an actual poultry wormer?

 

[casportpony]

They get more types of worms than the one that's labeled for poultry, Wazine (piperazine), which only gets roundworms. Safegaurd (Fenbendazole) is used on cats, kittens, dogs, puppies, foals etc, it's not just a horse, cattle or goat wormer.

-Kathy

 

[capsicum]

I've used ivermectin before with no harm, just used it again on the 31st for general parasite and mite control. I use equimax with praziquantel (for tape worms) as I also use it on my cat who gets tape worms from catching field mice.(And along with a pyrethrin cat shampoo for the ol' 1-2 punch, it cured him of scabies.)
Ivermectin can be bad for certain dog breeds that carry a gene which makes their blood brain membrane porous, which allows the ivermectin to get into their brains and short things out.
I use Fenben. every other time. (so worming 6-9 months apart)
All of them are also used in people, though with special labeling and about 10 times the price.

However, now (4 days after last treatment) I have a 25week pullet shaking her head like I've seen in a video on newcastle's, unsure if the neurologic symptoms are related, she is a bit of a runt and always had a sneezing/coughing issue but the shaking head is new.(may have started just before the ivermectin, I can't quite recall.) Poor girl can hardly hit the food and water.

Anyway I use a mg scale to weigh out some paste then I add a measured amount of water(in proportion to the paste) mix well(hard to get the paste well mixed, shaking in a small bottle for a couple minutes works best.) and then measure out doses based on bird weight.
I use a spread sheet but ivermectin and fenben are both very safe as far as overdosing goes, like 10 times the amount needed shouldn't cause any noticeable problems.
The correct dose for my 8kilo(17.5 pound) cat is 86mg or about 0.08cc of 1.87% Equimax paste.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ai_tn3iaHwtMdDhfVDRtb245ZmhReWF1VFNGLTVLbnc&usp=sharing

Notice it's about 11milligrams of 1.87% paste per kilogram of bird.(this is 200 micrograms active ingredient per kilogram) that would be 0.01cc per kilogram. That is why I stretch it with water, so I can dose in the easy to measure 0.4cc range with a 1ml/cc syringe

 

[dawg53]

You're right; ivermectin does no harm...especially to worms:
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1439-0450.1989.tb00635.x/abstract
Worms have built resistance to it due to its overuse in poultry as a miteacide. It is still effective against mites though.

 

[capsicum]

You're right; ivermectin does no harm...especially to worms:
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1439-0450.1989.tb00635.x/abstract
Worms have built resistance to it due to its overuse in poultry as a miteacide. It is still effective against mites though.

And that is why pharmaceuticals much like herbicides need to be rotated. ie don't use the same wormer category twice in a year if possible. Fenben and Iver have different modes of action chemically, might as well put piperazine in the rotation too.

 

[dawg53]

Quote: You're right. Unfortunately all you have to do is read alot of these threads where MOST folks have used ivermectin as a miteacide rather than its primary purpose as a wormer. That's why ivermectin is ineffective as a wormer as well as not rotating the product over time as you mentioned. The same is true for wazine, it has seen its better days as well.
The best wormer on the market is valbazen (albendazole.) It kills all known worms that chickens can get including tapeworms and flukes. Additionally valbazen slowly kills worms over several days, no need to worry about toxic dead worm overload as in the case of other wormers if a chicken has a worm infestation. Safeguard (fenbendazole) is another very good wormer, but wont kill tapeworms. For a stubborn tapeworm issue, I've used zimectrin gold, a less concentration percentage of praziquantel than equimax is all that is needed to kill tapeworms in chickens. Using valbazen in rotation with safeguard prevents worm resistance. Consider adding valbazen to your arsenal instead of ineffective ivermectin.

 

[suebee]

I use Fenbendazole powder packs for dogs. (Safeguard) They have different sizes based on weight. I get the large brown one with 3 four-gram packets. One packet treats 40 pounds of chickens. Since I have around 20 chickens that weigh approx. 2 pounds each, I first pour Cheerio's in a bowl and moisten with water. Once it's soggy I mix one packet in and give each chicken a spoonful. Just remember, a pound is a pound, no matter what animal you're treating with Fenben packs for dogs and 1 gram = 10 chickens.

 

[casportpony]

I use Fenbendazole powder packs for dogs. (Safeguard) They have different sizes based on weight. I get the large brown one with 3 four-gram packets. One packet treats 40 pounds of chickens. Since I have around 20 chickens that weigh approx. 2 pounds each, I first pour Cheerio's in a bowl and moisten with water. Once it's soggy I mix one packet in and give each chicken a spoonful. Just remember, a pound is a pound, no matter what animal you're treating with Fenben packs for dogs and 1 gram = 10 chickens.

You might want to try Safeguard for Goats (125ml bottle of 10% fenbendazole), it's cheaper I think, it will do 250 2.2 pound chickens for about $20.

-Kathy

Edited to add: Above is based on 50mg/kg (.5ml per 2.2 pounds) which is the dog dose and what I use on my chickens.

 

[casportpony]

I have corrected my math errors in my previous post about 1% ivermectin liquid.

The 1% ivermectin liquid has 10mg per ml (10mg/ml)
The dose for most birds is .2mg/kg (200 micrograms per kilogram)
.2mg of ivermectin = .02ml
.1mg of ivermectin = .01ml
.2mg = 200 micrograms
1 kilogram (kg) = 2.2 pounds
1ml = 1cc

So if you want to use 1% ivermectin properly you should weigh your bird and give .01ml per 1.1 pounds.

Personally, I only use it for mites as it's not an effective wormer according to this:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2816174

-Kathy

Again, please let me know if there are any errors! Errors in posts #11 and #14 have been corrected.