Bamboo leaves as a treat

[ErnieBerley]

bamboo on your property offers some nice forage and treats for chickens
it's very health in moderation , with high selenium, silica and other vitamins/minerals

and they love it !!

 

[U_Stormcrow]

This?
Two things I'd immediately point out. No, three.

First, a 2.2# (1,000g) bird at 8 weeks is nothing to be proud of. That, and the massive size difference with the bamboo supplimented diet suggests that the organic feed being used as a base is deficient in some critical nutritional factor. That's consistent with the other research, which found it difficult to create an oranic diet meeting a (particularly young) chicken's nutritional needs.

Second, the researcher's supposition - that additional fiber results in changes to the digestive tract which ultimately produce (very much) larger chickens at a given age - is a theory soundly rejected by other research. To the contrary, high fiber diets can be quite detrimental to a chicken's ability to absorb nutrients, though it definitely results in increased length in the digestive tract. Were it otherwise, high fiber feeds would be used (and recommended) in large scale commercial production as an easy way to increase broiler size. (Also, the amount of bamboo offered would not seem to increase total fiber content of the offered feed that much)

Third - at a glance, the offered organic feed is low in critical amino acids. Rice is low on Methionine and Lysine. So is corn. Molasses contains almost no Met and 1/3 as much Lys. Sweet potato leaves look a lot like poor quality soft wheat - similar total protein, but slightly less Met and Lys. Banana trunk is almost all water - but what isn't water is 3.5% protein, 24% fiber (much higher fiberrotein ratio than bamboo), and about 1.5% ether extract. Essentially, your only decent sources of Met and Lys are likely to be in the two cups of fermented fish.

Methionine is critical for development of connective tissues - including, significantly, the digestive system. Lysine is key to muscle development, particularly in the breast meat - and the organic diet is low in both. No one who knew what they were doing, and had another option, would feed the base diet to their birds here in the US.

I've not found much research on values for bamboo, but I did find a Pakistani study suggesting mature leaves were high (how high, I don't know - it was 2.5% of total protein - but the total protein wasn't disclosed) in Lysine. Interestingly, the same study found no Methionine in the leaves or shoots, yet numerous others have found them in both. I suspect a testing error on the part of the Pakistani researchers.

 

[ErnieBerley]

This?
Two things I'd immediately point out. No, three.

First, a 2.2# (1,000g) bird at 8 weeks is nothing to be proud of. That, and the massive size difference with the bamboo supplimented diet suggests that the organic feed being used as a base is deficient in some critical nutritional factor. That's consistent with the other research, which found it difficult to create an oranic diet meeting a (particularly young) chicken's nutritional needs.

Second, the researcher's supposition - that additional fiber results in changes to the digestive tract which ultimately produce (very much) larger chickens at a given age - is a theory soundly rejected by other research. To the contrary, high fiber diets can be quite detrimental to a chicken's ability to absorb nutrients, though it definitely results in increased length in the digestive tract. Were it otherwise, high fiber feeds would be used (and recommended) in large scale commercial production as an easy way to increase broiler size. (Also, the amount of bamboo offered would not seem to increase total fiber content of the offered feed that much)

Third - at a glance, the offered organic feed is low in critical amino acids. Rice is low on Methionine and Lysine. So is corn. Molasses contains almost no Met and 1/3 as much Lys. Sweet potato leaves look a lot like poor quality soft wheat - similar total protein, but slightly less Met and Lys. Banana trunk is almost all water - but what isn't water is 3.5% protein, 24% fiber (much higher fiberrotein ratio than bamboo), and about 1.5% ether extract. Essentially, your only decent sources of Met and Lys are likely to be in the two cups of fermented fish.

Methionine is critical for development of connective tissues - including, significantly, the digestive system. Lysine is key to muscle development, particularly in the breast meat - and the organic diet is low in both. No one who knew what they were doing, and had another option, would feed the base diet to their birds here in the US.

I've not found much research on values for bamboo, but I did find a Pakistani study suggesting mature leaves were high (how high, I don't know - it was 2.5% of total protein - but the total protein wasn't disclosed) in Lysine. Interestingly, the same study found no Methionine in the leaves or shoots, yet numerous others have found them in both. I suspect a testing error on the part of the Pakistani researchers.

#1 i'm not saying feed birds bamboo for weight gain, i'm saying THEY LOVE IT....period

 

[U_Stormcrow]

and for comparison, here's another study (this one using an amino acid supplimented base diet) which found no significant difference between the base diet and the bamboo leaf diet thru 6 weeks of age (at which point, all the birds averaged over 2kg). Its not useful for direct comparison, of course, because the rate of inclusion was quite low - only 0.5% of the total diet.

 

[ErnieBerley]

and for comparison, here's another study (this one using an amino acid supplimented base diet) which found no significant difference between the base diet and the bamboo leaf diet thru 6 weeks of age (at which point, all the birds averaged over 2kg). Its not useful for direct comparison, of course, because the rate of inclusion was quite low - only 0.5% of the total diet.

hey you're goin way off and being anal... i just am saying chickens love bamboo.... what are you doing writing a thesis? jeez

 

[U_Stormcrow]

#1 i'm not saying feed birds bamboo for weight gain, i'm saying THEY LOVE IT....period

Odd, i thought you were saying for "health" (the title), and further, you asserted, "made chickens grow healthier and faster than conventional feed. It contains lost of vitamins/minerals and other nutrients." (your original post)

Perhaps I misread?

I was saying that, if the study I found is the one you were thinking of, there are alterative explanations for the results which are more consistent with the known state of the science. If you had some other study in mind, I'd be happy to look at it too.

In limited quantity, it does not appear to be unhealthy or dangerous for our chickens. Neither does it appear to have the benefits I thought you wwere claiming for it in the original post.

 

[ErnieBerley]

Odd, i thought you were saying for "health" (the title), and further, you asserted, "made chickens grow healthier and faster than conventional feed. It contains lost of vitamins/minerals and other nutrients." (your original post)

Perhaps I misread?

I was saying that, if the study I found is the one you were thinking of, there are alterative explanations for the results which are more consistent with the known state of the science. If you had some other study in mind, I'd be happy to look at it too.

In limited quantity, it does not appear to be unhealthy or dangerous for our chickens. Neither does it appear to have the benefits I thought you wwere claiming for it in the original post.

bamboo does have health benefits... chlorophyll, selenium, silica other minerals/vitamins

 

[ErnieBerley]

and for comparison, here's another study (this one using an amino acid supplimented base diet) which found no significant difference between the base diet and the bamboo leaf diet thru 6 weeks of age (at which point, all the birds averaged over 2kg). Its not useful for direct comparison, of course, because the rate of inclusion was quite low - only 0.5% of the total diet.

what does this say ..... Has anyone tried bamboo leaves for chicken treats? ...... u think i'm saying feed your flock bamboo only. or something, please ...picky picky
i wish i could take the entire post down now thanks a lot

 

[BrandonsBirbs]

what does this say ..... Has anyone tried bamboo leaves for chicken treats? ...... u think i'm saying feed your flock bamboo only. or something, please ...picky picky
i wish i could take the entire post down now thanks a lot

Have some respect, he offered you some pretty darn good insight on research you mentioned. He didn't say you can't feed chickens bamboo leaves, only that the research didn't suggest it made a positive impact to their weight.

 

[BrandonsBirbs]

Just reading the nutritional information on bamboo leaves shows it would not be able to make such a big difference. 70% increase.. sure..