Becoming More Self Sufficient With Chickens

[jtn42248]

A properly trained livestock protection dog would shortly after birth (once weaned) be placed with and raised with the flock/heard that it is intended to protect. It would not have a name, as such, but some audible identifier that could be used to call it to you. It should have very little human interaction to assure it bonds fully with its heard/flock. At least that is the way many of the goat and cattle ranchers around me raise their protection dogs. I would have a very hard time doing that to a dog that enjoys human companionship so much. The dogs that I do have are strictly for alerting me of anything, they may participate in the elimination of that problem and they may not, but they must let me know that something needs to be taken care of.

 

[mtngirl35]

A more self-reliant meat source would be meat rabbits...they take up less space and have a quicker, higher meat to feed yield than do chickens. You can even raise them on pasture in tractors and have less fear of predation in that manner, and you will have dogs on guard anyway.

Done properly, you could have a working, rolling flock of Plymouth White Rocks of about 40 birds, add 2-3 Cochins for brooding your eggs(you will also have WRs go broody as well, particularly if you are using heirloom bloodlines), which will yield huge cockerels for slaughter, great laying genetics and huge old hens when they are done laying. I'd put one of my spent WR laying hen's carcasses up against most 3 yr old roosters of any other breed out there.

As for stewing them or cooking a chicken in the oven...if you truly want to be self-reliant, this will not be the way to go. You lose so much of the bird in that manner and you also have to store them in a freezer, which requires electricity...one power out can render your entire winter meat stores lost. Canning your chickens is the way to go....you can use everything but the bawk for stock, rendered fat and meat without any fear of losing any of it. They will stay preserved that way for some years safely and you don't have to worry about freezer burn, cleaning out the freezer of meat no longer usable, etc.

Rabbits are great canned as well.

For self-reliance, I'd mix a flock of the WRs and have some NZ white meat rabbits as my meat source and keep them both producing at maximum efficiency by judicious culling, frequent breeding(rabbits), and using the Cochins for their brooding abilities.

With a good farm dog there's no reason you can't free range safely. Back him up with a shotgun for any stray dogs and you are golden.

We have discussed rabbits. I want to get some next spring. I love canning and believe I have enough experience to move into canning meat. Any suggestions on a good breed of farm dog? I have two mutts but they will kill a chicken in a heartbeat so I keep them put up. The shotgun will be no problem. I have dealt with predators before.

 

[centrarchid]

We have discussed rabbits. I want to get some next spring. I love canning and believe I have enough experience to move into canning meat. Any suggestions on a good breed of farm dog? I have two mutts but they will kill a chicken in a heartbeat so I keep them put up. The shotgun will be no problem. I have dealt with predators before.

First work on current dogs getting them poultry safe. All my dogs kill chickens in the beginning but prevent more losses than they cause in the long run. At the very least you have an alarm system. Once current dogs on mission then consider another larger breed that is expected to live in barn area regardless of weather. Most LGD breeds suitable for that as are some shepherds. How big are your coyotes? That is likely to be geographic issue. Dogs I use are primarily regarded for their ability to hunt but they have an off duty job fo defending the home / farmstead. More is better in that regard but always more than one dog when coyotes and other dogs are of concern. Depending on setup, at least some dogs may need to sleep near home so they can arose you when visitors call. Growing up we used coonhounds and almost always had more than 10 but they earned keep through hide sales. Some also where used for hunting foxes which was from my recollection a source of entertainment although in retrospect it may have been a form of predator management to protect poultry yard and walks in the area.

We also had other types of livestock, including rabbits although we were well to do enough that rabbits were not considered the most practical option, especially when wild cotton-tailed rabbits were abundant and cheaper to harvest. The larger livestock options up some real food chain options for a free-range flock not possible otherwise.

 

[Beekissed]

We have discussed rabbits. I want to get some next spring. I love canning and believe I have enough experience to move into canning meat. Any suggestions on a good breed of farm dog? I have two mutts but they will kill a chicken in a heartbeat so I keep them put up. The shotgun will be no problem. I have dealt with predators before.

I've had three Lab and Lab mix dogs over the years, each excellent farm/chicken dogs. They are easy to find as pups and folks usually are giving them away. I suggest getting one as a pup and training in basic obedience at the earliest possible age, established a firm pack leadership over him in all things. Then proceed to training on the animals each and every single day you go out to tend them...take the pup, correcting any overt attention towards the birds, even playfulness...it helps if you can tie his leash to your person for these sessions~it also helps if you take him for a walk and get some energy out of him before he goes to work. Do not ever let him precede you in the walk or into the coop or pens.

It's a serious job and it calls for a serious attitude...he can play some other time, but when he's on duty and in training, he has to stay focused. Short, intense, repetitive training sessions that are consistent will yield the best results.

It's best if he lives outdoors from the very first, near the chicken's coop and area. No unsupervised contact until he can be trusted fully around the birds and with each command you have taught him. You can bring him in the house of an evening to socialize with the family and learn his social skills in a home and around humans...do not let the kids spoil him by allowing him to jump on them or the furniture without permission. Training sessions come first, play comes later.

It's worth the time and effort you will put in to turn out a dog you can trust down through the years. A dog with a job is a happy dog. If you are not much of a leader in your family or in your respective pack/herd/flock, it's likely you will not be able to train a dog to respect you and what is yours, even when you are absent.

 

[mtngirl35]

First work on current dogs getting them poultry safe. All my dogs kill chickens in the beginning but prevent more losses than they cause in the long run. At the very least you have an alarm system. Once current dogs on mission then consider another larger breed that is expected to live in barn area regardless of weather. Most LGD breeds suitable for that as are some shepherds. How big are your coyotes? That is likely to be geographic issue. Dogs I use are primarily regarded for their ability to hunt but they have an off duty job fo defending the home / farmstead. More is better in that regard but always more than one dog when coyotes and other dogs are of concern. Depending on setup, at least some dogs may need to sleep near home so they can arose you when visitors call. Growing up we used coonhounds and almost always had more than 10 but they earned keep through hide sales. Some also where used for hunting foxes which was from my recollection a source of entertainment although in retrospect it may have been a form of predator management to protect poultry yard and walks in the area.

We also had other types of livestock, including rabbits although we were well to do enough that rabbits were not considered the most practical option, especially when wild cotton-tailed rabbits were abundant and cheaper to harvest. The larger livestock options up some real food chain options for a free-range flock not possible otherwise.

We will not be keeping the lab mix when we get moved onto the farm. She is actually my stepdaughter's dog and she is going to take her home. The basset hound mix is a big chicken and much too timid to keep predators at bay. He hides from everything...except chickens. The coyote we have around here are comparable to medium sized dogs and they are abundant. My MIL has a pit bull who has laid there and let chickens walk all around him and actually perch on him without batting an eye. He killed 2 coyote last year. He is very friendly to people and not so friendly to other dogs but she will never part with him. My cousin has recommended a Great Pyrenees but I don't have any knowledge of them. All I know at this point is that whatever dogs I get will have to be good around chickens, ducks, pigs, rabbits, goats, cows, and a donkey.

 

[mtngirl35]

I've had three Lab and Lab mix dogs over the years, each excellent farm/chicken dogs. They are easy to find as pups and folks usually are giving them away. I suggest getting one as a pup and training in basic obedience at the earliest possible age, established a firm pack leadership over him in all things. Then proceed to training on the animals each and every single day you go out to tend them...take the pup, correcting any overt attention towards the birds, even playfulness...it helps if you can tie his leash to your person for these sessions~it also helps if you take him for a walk and get some energy out of him before he goes to work. Do not ever let him precede you in the walk or into the coop or pens.

It's a serious job and it calls for a serious attitude...he can play some other time, but when he's on duty and in training, he has to stay focused. Short, intense, repetitive training sessions that are consistent will yield the best results.

It's best if he lives outdoors from the very first, near the chicken's coop and area. No unsupervised contact until he can be trusted fully around the birds and with each command you have taught him. You can bring him in the house of an evening to socialize with the family and learn his social skills in a home and around humans...do not let the kids spoil him by allowing him to jump on them or the furniture without permission. Training sessions come first, play comes later.

It's worth the time and effort you will put in to turn out a dog you can trust down through the years. A dog with a job is a happy dog. If you are not much of a leader in your family or in your respective pack/herd/flock, it's likely you will not be able to train a dog to respect you and what is yours, even when you are absent.

Any dog I have will be an outside dog. The cat rules the roost indoors and will tolerate no competition, lol. Only my son still lives at home and he'll be grown and gone before long. He doesn't much fool with animals anyway. Any and all training will be given the utmost effort because it will be entirely on my shoulders if he is not trained properly and I lose animals as a result.

 

[centrarchid]

Dog being good around birds is very much up to your efforts. Breed has an impact but your efforts can override. Coyotes and even foxes can beat even a Great Pyrenees if only one dog. One baits dog while other sneaks in behind and snatches a chicken and runs. You can help a single dog by keeping birds tight within a perimeter that makes the snatch and grab more technical. Also, most LGD's recognized on this forum where developed for herding animals threatened by predators that have to dominate kill sight to consume catch. Chickens do not stay together well enough and coyotes and foxes can move kill for consumption elsewhere. Effort to make that more difficult with cover patches and fences. Where I work they have several LGD's defending several herds of sheep and goats on three farms. Herds are not associated with a barnyard. The dogs have been replaced on two farms because they cost to much for defending smallish herds of only about 50 head each. They are being replaced by donkeys that handle coyotes quite well but I doubt they would protect chickens.unless donkey has a reason to stay with them and even then chickens will not help donkey's efforts.

 

[mtngirl35]

Dog being good around birds is very much up to your efforts. Breed has an impact but your efforts can override. Coyotes and even foxes can beat even a Great Pyrenees if only one dog. One baits dog while other sneaks in behind and snatches a chicken and runs. You can help a single dog by keeping birds tight within a perimeter that makes the snatch and grab more technical. Also, most LGD's recognized on this forum where developed for herding animals threatened by predators that have to dominate kill sight to consume catch. Chickens do not stay together well enough and coyotes and foxes can move kill for consumption elsewhere. Effort to make that more difficult with cover patches and fences. Where I work they have several LGD's defending several herds of sheep and goats on three farms. Herds are not associated with a barnyard. The dogs have been replaced on two farms because they cost to much for defending smallish herds of only about 50 head each. They are being replaced by donkeys that handle coyotes quite well but I doubt they would protect chickens.unless donkey has a reason to stay with them and even then chickens will not help donkey's efforts.

I actually just want a donkey because I may be the only person on earth that likes to hear them bray. Animal defense is a great perk though. I don't mind feeding 2 or 3 dogs even though I will only have a "mini farm". I want animals because I love to tend to them...and, yes, eat them. The training and cost of upkeep for the dogs will be worth it for me. Also we love dogs.

 

[centrarchid]

You can go the old barnyard route where dog operates mostly outside the area the donkey works. Dog can still be a good alarm when donkey gets excited and possibly assists if donkey allows. Providing predators two types of threats likely to be more effective than one.

Is a proper barn with manger area and loft involved?

 

[mtngirl35]

You can go the old barnyard route where dog operates mostly outside the area the donkey works. Dog can still be a good alarm when donkey gets excited and possibly assists if donkey allows. Providing predators two types of threats likely to be more effective than one.

Is a proper barn with manger area and loft involved?

It will be. We haven't actually moved onto the land we bought yet. Still getting all our ducks in a row, so to speak.