Bees, temperament and toughness

[Pullet-Shut Chicken Doors]

This was being discussed as a hijacking of bees in chicken feed, and Birdinhand (BiH) suggested this as a thread in and of itself. So... here it is.

First a note on my bees. About 150 hives in central Texas, all genetics from feral hive removals. So africanized (AHB) genetics are strong. However, hive strengths are undeniable. I run treatment free, I'm only in the hives about 6-10 times a year on average, and I have about 90% survival rates, compare that to 55% nationwide survival rates with lots more TLC.

BiH's question was if we have bred the 'toughness' out of too much of the honey bees in the USA? I say yes, but I also recognize the motivations that lead to that. First, we live in a 'new world'. Compared to 100 years ago, we have Small Hive Beetles (SHB), Varroa mites, extensive pesticide use, and extensive hive mobility (pollination services). 90% survival rates used to be the norm per year, where only 10% of hives would die on average. Nationwide that number floats around 45% hive losses annually, with beekeepers working hard to replace lost colonies.

But rather than writing a long, verbose chapter, let me summarize and open the discussion to all. My opinion is that it's a harsh world, and bees need the genetics to modestly defend themselves to survive. Let me give an example. Let's say you are sitting at home reading this, and a giant comes along, rips the roof off your house, rearranges your furniture and puts the roof back on your home. IF you go through that and don't run to grab a weapon to defend your home, well I'm sorry, but you're going to die due to a fundamental lack of self-preservation skills. I say the exact same thing is true for bees. If you want bees that don't get defensive when you do hive inspections, then you have the job of defending them 24/7.

Or let me put that another way. Take one of my AHB colonies. A scorpion goes in the entrance, they kill it. Yellow jackets attack, they fight and kill them. A mouse tries to sneak in for a warm nap, and they give it a permanent nap. Skunks, ants, SHB, varroa, in every case my bees have the simple answer that only sisters (and a few worthless brothers!) are allowed into the hive and everything else dies. 99.99% of the time they are doing the right thing, other than when it's me opening their hive. Who here would get upset if you grandchild came home with a 99.99% on his/her report card? Do you want your bees to be right 99.99% of the time, or do you want them to be wrong 99.99% of the time? Not even the government is that incompetent!

Now, granted, there are different levels of meanness. Defending their hive isn't the same as bees following you for 2 miles (yes, some of my colonies are that bad) trying to kill you. Not everyone can live with that, notably when hives are 50ft from your back door. But I think far too many people run far too far in the opposite direction. The first time 5 bees come after you, they kill and replace the queen with a new, 'gentler' queen. And they wonder why their hive fails in the months that follow. 98% of the time, your meanest hives are also your #1 producers and strongest survivors.

If you've read this far, thank you. This is my viewpoint. I welcome discussion. (BTW, I've created a class I've taught to hundreds of beekeepers I titled "Managing Mean Bees", and note that I don't recommend mean bees to beginner beekeepers, I'm not intentionally trying to kill people)

 

[Debbie292d]

We just sold our hives after a few years of having them. We had the "nice" bees that didn't produce as well but weren't mean. It was fun but I wound up finding out I'm allergic to bees so that ended that. @Sally PB has bees I believe, and I'll tag your inspiration, @Birdinhand

 

[Sally PB]

This is our first year having bees. They are a mix of Italian and Carniolan. Neither my husband nor I have been stung, so far. We suit up whenever we open the hive, and so far, the bees have been very calm about our interventions.

We also have cold winters with a lot of snow. At the bee club meetings, I have heard of winters where 90% of hives don't make it, and also winters when 90% do. We'll see what kind of winter this is in a few weeks.

 

[Pullet-Shut Chicken Doors]

This is our first year having bees. They are a mix of Italian and Carniolan. Neither my husband nor I have been stung, so far. We suit up whenever we open the hive, and so far, the bees have been very calm about our interventions.

We also have cold winters with a lot of snow. At the bee club meetings, I have heard of winters where 90% of hives don't make it, and also winters when 90% do. We'll see what kind of winter this is in a few weeks.

Sally, I chuckle at people awaiting their "first sting". Sort of like a teenager's "first date". There is too much fear in waiting, I tell people to just take a bee & get stung. It won't kill you (I hope!). Yes it will hurt a little, but it will fade away quickly. In fact, it really does help with arthritis.

A big part of why I created the "Managing Mean Bees" class is because I had to learn the hard, painful way. Nobody talked about AHB a decade ago, it was dark magic. I probably took a couple thousand stings that first year. And probably 1000 stings per year in the years that followed. But that is what it took to learn how to do it. I probably still take hundreds of stings a year, all are my own fault. The good news is that I'm like a mongoose, while I still feel the pain, nothing swells up, or if it does then within minutes it's gone.

For a laugh, I also used to live in the Arctic Circle (aka NW Indiana), until I discovered a wonderful company called U-Haul and headed south! I think Michael Bush (he wrote Practical Beekeeping) does a great job with bees up in the bitter cold of Nebraska.

 

[No Coop No Problem]

I was under the impression that the declining number of bees worldwide was entirely due to poison. Glyphosate for example is now found in every single human food item, even organic ones, and is the leading cause of the obesity epidemic in humans

It would stand to reason that poison is also responsible for killing the bees​

 

[Debbie292d]

Sally, I chuckle at people awaiting their "first sting". Sort of like a teenager's "first date". There is too much fear in waiting, I tell people to just take a bee & get stung. It won't kill you (I hope!). Yes it will hurt a little, but it will fade away quickly. In fact, it really does help with arthritis.

A big part of why I created the "Managing Mean Bees" class is because I had to learn the hard, painful way. Nobody talked about AHB a decade ago, it was dark magic. I probably took a couple thousand stings that first year. And probably 1000 stings per year in the years that followed. But that is what it took to learn how to do it. I probably still take hundreds of stings a year, all are my own fault. The good news is that I'm like a mongoose, while I still feel the pain, nothing swells up, or if it does then within minutes it's gone.

For a laugh, I also used to live in the Arctic Circle (aka NW Indiana), until I discovered a wonderful company called U-Haul and headed south! I think Michael Bush (he wrote Practical Beekeeping) does a great job with bees up in the bitter cold of Nebraska.

I got stung in the kitchen. I had a couple of hitchhikers I didn't know about and they weren't calm bees anymore lol.

 

[Sally PB]

I got stung in the kitchen. I had a couple of hitchhikers I didn't know about and they weren't calm bees anymore lol.

I should have gotten stung when I had a hitchhiker that crawled up my (not stuffed into my socks) pantleg. I was in the kitchen, felt something, and got those pants off, pronto!

 

[Pullet-Shut Chicken Doors]

I was under the impression that the declining number of bees worldwide was entirely due to poison. Glyphosate for example is now found in every single human food item, even organic ones, and is the leading cause of the obesity epidemic in humans

It would stand to reason that poison is also responsible for killing the bees​

Actually the 'official' first cause of bee losses are varroa mites. It's like a tick to us that can devastate a colony, although some bees seem to control them. My opinion is that the #1 cause is always us, the beekeepers. Poisons are in the top 5 though.

 

[NagemTX]

I have a friend that has hives and I've been trying to learn more about them.