Being self sufficient

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Modern woodstoves are orders of magnitude more efficient than fireplaces.

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Yes. Also look at "fireplace inserts".
 
Thank you
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So the either one will work the same a stove or a fireplace iinsert or would the stove heat more?
 
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Although I agree that the Amish are now shopping at WalMart, etc., they are still able to be self-sufficient from what I've observed, and I don't think they would be affected much if there were suddenly no Walmarts around. The energy crisis and Y2K is not an issue for them, although they do have some gas-powered equipment.

However, my main comment is that what makes the Amish system work is that it is a FAMILY enterprise working together -- that means the immediate and extended family as well as the larger community are constantly helping each other and providing each other with supplies and/or helping hands to make the self-sufficiency model work. I don't think the self sufficiency model works with a single household model. Personally, this community-based system is something I would love to see "come back" to American society.
 
A fireplace insert is really just a stove made to fit inside of a fireplace. It looks nicer than a jury-rigged stove and doesn't take up as much room.
 
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near here, the Amish buy Smuckers jelly when it goes on sale really cheap and then repack it and sell it!

how funny is that?
 
Oh yeah, seems like everyone's got an Amish-"hatin'" story. But I gotta give them credit overall. I drive past several of their homes on my scenic drive to work, and their places are well-kept and neat as a pin; their chicken houses are nicely painted and also neat as a pin, with shiny, healthy birds. This is a STARK contrast to a lot of the other places I see on the same country drive.
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i totally love them...i just found it funny. hey, you gotta hand it to 'em for ingenuity! (makes them smarter than me!
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and they make the best pineapple pie i have ever eaten!
 
I for one don't want to be Amish or living in the Stone Age. I do think it's important to be aware of where my food comes from. I love that I'm growing oodles of food and keep chickens and goats, but I'll never grind flour. I still think good Spanish olive oil is worth the cost and I have quite the collection of artisinal salts. I think some modicum of self sufficiency is great, but not so great that I want to party like it's 1699. I'd like to have some solar power, but I don't want to cut down all of my trees or stop watching t.v., so I doubt I'll ever be off the grid. I don't want to forgo important things like health care and automobiles. I like designer clothes and electronics and going to concerts in the city. I like to read about self sufficiency and choose the parts that suit my lifestyle. When the pursuit of an ideal turns dogmatic, I lose interest fast.
 
Well, the biggest legit gripe I've heard about the Amish ingenuity is the one about puppy mills.
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That's apparently a bigger problem in PA than it is here in OH. I dunno. I'm not pro or con. I just go by what I see, and what I see chicken-keeping-wise is pretty good, at least here locally.

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When the pursuit of an ideal turns dogmatic, I lose interest fast.

I agree, kinnip.​
 
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To add to Oblio's post about woodstoves: You really need to have an open floor plan to make the best use of a woodstove or fireplace insert. Even better if your house has a lot of thermal mass, that can hold heat while the woodstove is running and then release heat when you go to bed.

Our woodstove is in the center of a very old timber-framed house. The chimney stack is a real monster of a creation, a combination of granite and brick, and it holds heat like a champ. But, the floor plan is very old-fashioned, designed to shut certain rooms off completely in the winter for heating efficiency as well as for privacy. You can get heat-activated fans to blow the hot air around that sit on top of the stove, but despite all that our brand-new Vermont Castings stove only heats maybe 2 1/2 rooms and a hallway up to a comfortable temperature. In the dead of winter, frost forms on the inside of windows at night, in the rooms furthest from the stove.

Also, they run best on hardwood. When I bought this place, the wood shed was stacked full of about 2 cords of firewood. I thought, yippee! No need to cut or buy firewood for a winter or two! Yeah, uh, it was almost all pine. I can stuff my woodstove full to the top, turn the air vent down to barely-open, and all that pine will be nothing but ash in about two hours. In comparison, two hickory, locust and maple logs will last more like 4-8 hours. Believe me, it really sucks to wake up at 2am freezing your butt off because the woodstove that you crammed full to the top at 10pm is ice-cold.

And, as one of my engineer friends was very disappointed to find out, the house won't smell like a wood fire at all while a super-efficient woodstove is running. So if you're addicted to that nice smoky smell, you're outta luck.
 

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