Best ways to tell who's laying and who is not?

[aart]

thanks all!

yeah, i understand well the daylight thing already. even in here at 22 degrees latitude it still has an effect.

right now we have precisely two different age groups, seven older hens and foir new pullets. ultimately by next year we would be replacing all the older girls anyway.

i realize that making longer term judgements based on what a hen is doing right at a particular moment may not be ideal--but its a heck of bit better than just eanie meanie minie mo, which was about where we were at the other day! And at least it prevents you from culling an active layer, and guarantees some feed savings short term.

Ive been doing some more reading and will try to make the time to go through the flock again real soon to measure pubic bones and such armed with increased knowledge of what to look for. i may do this a couple of times if i have to put off slaughter for a week or two anyway just to double check my work and make sure i dont cull anybody just coming out of molt too!

having different breeds for different age groups def works--but isnt it just as easy to use bands to mark age groups, even the cheapie ones without numbers (on the older hens, not the pullets)? eg pullets = no band, yearlings = one band, older = one band on each leg, etc? thats what we do--the only prob i see is it could be time consuming only if you had dozens or hundreds ...

Yep...I use zip ties 4-5 colors and right leg / left leg / multiple ties.

 

[NysiaAnera]

Yep...I use zip ties 4-5 colors and right leg / left leg / multiple ties.

We have decided to use leg bands also, but I am having trouble finding what I want. We have some hens that we do not plan on culling ever, they are our originals before we started our self sustaining flock, so I want them banded with something that will last several years. We will also be long term banding our good broodies, and keeping them around, and of course banding everyone so we know ages, etc.

My question to you is:
How long do zip ties last?

I have decided to use zip ties until I can find something better. I have heard that they will wear out and need replaced frequently (a few times a year??), and so would not be good for my purposes. If that is not accurate, and they will last, I will simply use them instead.

 

[aart]

Quote: I have a couple birds that have had them on for 2+ years and several more for 1+ years.
They can get dirty and hard to see the color tho, but I use very small ties and their environment can get muddy.
So might be good to replace them once a year for clarity if they get too dirty, not too hard to do once you've got it down,
I've replaced a few dirty ones during routine exams.
Have only had one fall off, defective lock failed I think.

Tho only time you have to change them more frequently is between hatch and about 5 months old.
Once I got good at gauging the size while putting them on, I only had to change 3 times as they grew.
You do have to keep an eye on them during the growth period so they don't get too tight.
Key for me was using end cutters to remove a tighter tie, you can cut thru the lock instead of having to get between leg and tie.

Here's the deets on how I use zipties for leg bands.
https://www.backyardchickens.com/a/leg-banding-with-zipties

 

[NysiaAnera]

I have a couple birds that have had them on for 2+ years and several more for 1+ years.
They can get dirty and hard to see the color tho, but I use very small ties and their environment can get muddy.
So might be good to replace them once a year for clarity if they get too dirty, not too hard to do once you've got it down,
I've replaced a few dirty ones during routine exams.
Have only had one fall off, defective lock failed I think.

Tho only time you have to change them more frequently is between hatch and about 5 months old.
Once I got good at gauging the size while putting them on, I only had to change 3 times as they grew.
You do have to keep an eye on them during the growth period so they don't get too tight.
Key for me was using end cutters to remove a tighter tie, you can cut thru the lock instead of having to get between leg and tie.

Here's the deets on how I use zipties for leg bands.
https://www.backyardchickens.com/a/leg-banding-with-zipties

Awesome! That was very helpful, thank you so much!

 

[triplepurpose]

So, update:

Having read 3+ different articles online including one from an ag outreach and brushing up on the tips in my copy of Chickens and Poultry on Scraps, i went out to the coop with a net, three different containers for sorting hens, and a pack of bands, and a lot of confidence--

--and was almost completely lost.

there seemed to be no consistency among most of the "signs" of good lay--skin pigment, comb condition, vent size, pubic spacing, feather condition, fatness, etc. for example, one hen would hav a pale rough comb and wattles, smallish vent, but wide pubic bones, and the next might be the opposite. only one of my (standard size) hens had pubic bones i could fit three fingers between, and for complicated reasons i doubt she is the best layer of them all--more likely is obese.

i like to think, at least, that i am a fairly observant person and a quick study. but this was an excersise in frustration. i managed to make notes on a few, but for the most of them i might as well have tossed a coin. do i just have a bunch of weird deformed chickens?! how the heck do people make these determinations with any sort of confidence?! do you just have to spend years looking at chicken rears til you magically acquire "the Gift?!"

i am baffled...

 

[aart]

So, update:

Having read 3+ different articles online including one from an ag outreach and brushing up on the tips in my copy of Chickens and Poultry on Scraps, i went out to the coop with a net, three different containers for sorting hens, and a pack of bands, and a lot of confidence--

--and was almost completely lost.

there seemed to be no consistency among most of the "signs" of good lay--skin pigment, comb condition, vent size, pubic spacing, feather condition, fatness, etc. for example, one hen would hav a pale rough comb and wattles, smallish vent, but wide pubic bones, and the next might be the opposite. only one of my (standard size) hens had pubic bones i could fit three fingers between, and for complicated reasons i doubt she is the best layer of them all--more likely is obese.

i like to think, at least, that i am a fairly observant person and a quick study. but this was an excersise in frustration. i managed to make notes on a few, but for the most of them i might as well have tossed a coin. do i just have a bunch of weird deformed chickens?! how the heck do people make these determinations with any sort of confidence?! do you just have to spend years looking at chicken rears til you magically acquire "the Gift?!"

i am baffled...

It takes time and experience to get the hang of it....and much is slightly subjective rather than easy peasy black and white.
And the more attributes you try to observe and document, the more confusing it will be and the more time to get good at it.
There are always variations between individual birds.
I stick with the pelvic bone spacing...it's the easiest and most accurate, IMO, but even with that there's variation.
Over time I've gotten better at seeing the vent appearances...but still the bones always tell the tale for me.
Have found combs to be variable too, one of my best layers comb was always kind of pale..not a vibrant and glossy red.
I don't even try to assess skin, legs, etc....I do think that would take years of observance/experience.

You may just have to flip a coin....and as mention previously, fall isn't the best time to be assessing anyway due to molting and low light hiatus.

 

[triplepurpose]

well, thank you for the advice! it makes good sense...

so, hypothetically, when would you say IS the best time to assess and evaluate and cull ones layers, practically speaking? the height of production for assesment, but waiting until fall to cull? late summer just as eggs begin to decline? springtime, if eggs arent returning when they ought? throughout rhe year? something else...?

 

[aart]

well, thank you for the advice! it makes good sense...

so, hypothetically, when would you say IS the best time to assess and evaluate and cull ones layers, practically speaking? the height of production for assesment, but waiting until fall to cull? late summer just as eggs begin to decline? springtime, if eggs arent returning when they ought? throughout rhe year? something else...?

Yep, that's about what I am doing.....get all the production you can, hatch out chicks in early spring,
cull the cockerels before 16 weeks, raise up pullets in summer when I can get away with a larger population.
Cull the old hens before winter sets in and crowding can become an issue.

That's the theory anyway.......I still have four 18 months olds that I was unable to sell, and two 30 months olds.
Am going to be testing my population space this winter, tho may have to slaughter the oldest girls and maybe some of the younger ones too before winters out.
You plan, the chicken gods laugh....hahaha!

 

[cavemanrich]

Quote: Not that I want to post bragging rites but I have one hen that is 128 months old. I outdo you slightly AART.

Most likely I could cook chicken soup from that carcass for 3 weeks daily, and meat would still be firm......

 

[lazy gardener]

I cooked a chicken last week. When I butchered them, I cut them up, and tossed each piece into the ice water as I went along. So, when packaged, some packages contained parts of Phred, and parts of Henry. Interestingly, there was a HUGE difference in meat quality between Phred and Henry. The first night, we had tender chicken. When I put the rest away, it was incredibly tough. I couldn't even cut through the skin. I returned it to the crock pot and let it simmer for an other round, and it fell off the bone after that. And yes, I did give the birds 3 days of fridge time before freezing them.