Big Bad Mareks

[2ndTink]

Well, here's is another "My flock has Mareks " thread. I just received the necropsy report on Dec 27th so I'm just starting into my Mareks journey, doing a lot of reading, question asking, and freaking out, hoping, planning and scratching plans.

I have a few goals for this thread:
- Chronicle the flocks health going forward
- Receive input from other with Mareks experience
- Lay out my Next Steps (these I'm sure will change as I go! And please feel free to advise on these!)
- Share any previous bird losses that stand out and recieve opinions on if they could have been caused by Mareks, the goal here is to try and determine if I've had Mareks for years or if this is a new thing

First, a quick history of my flock, I'll try to keep it brief and avoid the chicken math rabbit hole side stories. I'll add more details on chicken losses in another post.

2020 - I bought 5 adorable chicks (3 BA, 2 GLW) from the farm store, the GLWs ended up being cockerels, I took them to a chicken swap along with 1 BA who sure looked like a cockerel, a kind man confirmed it was indeed a pullet and I took her back home, along with 4 POL GCs I had arranged to purchase from him and 6 guinea keets that somehow fell into my truck. Through the rest of the summer we purchased another 5 BRs, 1 RIR, a whoops Cornish X. With the exception of the guineas and GCs, all came from local feed stores. As of this post I've lost all 4 GCs (1 to predation), 1 BR (also predation) and just last week lost the RIR, and we processed the CX.

To note, the GCs were never super robust and healthy seeming, some days they seemed fine, others I'd think one was fading, but they'd turn around and start looking fine again. One would spend a week or so a little lethargic seeming, then perk back up. They had been raised in a huge poultry house, mayne 10,000 at a time, trimmed beaks and all that. I lost on that fall to a bald eagle (I have mixed feelings on this, I loved my chicken and was so upset to lose her, but bald eagles are also just amazing to watch and I feel like I contributed to the species...)

2021 - We weren't going to get more chicks, but somehow ended up with I think it was 13... a mix of EE's, BR's, RIR's, and BA's, all from the feed store that buys from Mt Healthy Hatchery, we've lost 1 EE, 1 BR, 1 RIR.

2022 - we bought no chickens!?! Craziness!

2023 - we weren't going to buy chicks, but I had an insistent BA broody so we broke down and bought her chicks, which freaked her out and broke her from being broody, so we raised 5 GLW's, 2 EE's, and 4 white silkies from TSC. No losses to date! The silkies just totally won me over so I bought eggs and hatched out 16 more, then when they were about 12 weeks old I bought 3 more chicks from the same breeder about the same age.

I don't know for sure if all the hatchery chicks were vaccinated for Mareks or not, but I know my home hatched silkies were not. I had a sikkie decline quickly in early Nov so we put her down, she was tiny, half the size of the others her age so I assumed it was a developmental issue / failure to thrive. At the end of Nov I had another silkie pullet start acting off balance, I dumped vitamins into her thinking it was a vitamin deficiency but she just slowly got worse. We culled her on Dec 10th and took her to the state lab for a necropsy on the 11th. Unfortunately, I had set eggs just after Thanksgiving, and I brought home 9 more silkie chicks from an NPIP cert breeder as well. I now have 10 chicks 1 to 2 weeks old (staggered hatch), so I have 19 chicks brooding in the house, unvacvinated.

Next Step:
Tomorrow all 19 chicks in the house are getting vaccinated. Yes, I know this may not 100% be effective, but if there's a chance it might help them, it's worth it.
- anyone have experience with vaccinating late?

 

[Debbie292d]

My understanding is that chickens of any age could be vaccinated for Marek's, but it's not as effective on adult birds as it is for chicks, which it's intended for.

I'm honestly considering doing the same thing here but I'd also want to vaccinate my older ones as well whether it isn't very effective or not.

I am so sorry you're having to deal with this though. My heart goes out to you!

 

[2ndTink]

My understanding is that chickens of any age could be vaccinated for Marek's, but it's not as effective on adult birds as it is for chicks, which it's intended for.

I'm honestly considering doing the same thing here but I'd also want to vaccinate my older ones as well whether it isn't very effective or not.

I am so sorry you're having to deal with this though. My heart goes out to you!

Yes, I forgot to add that we will vaccinate the 5 month old silkies as well! I'm not sure about the one showing symptoms though, I don't know if it would do any good for her, she would already have tumors growing around her nerves

Because of what I'm going through, I would highly recommend vaccinating! This isn't based on fact or science, but my gut reaction that anything that might lower the chances of you dealing with Mareks is worth it.

 

[2ndTink]

Continuing to think through were the Mareks could have come from.

We live in a heavy poultry area, there are at least 3 poultry house in a 2 mile radius, going to 5 miles, I'd have to count on Google maps but it's probably several more. They do turkeys and broilers 10k to 30k at least at a time, and there's some layers that keep a couple hundred birds. I have neighbors within a mile with chickens a well.

Then there's going to the feed store or anywhere else off our property. I have specific chore boots and coats, but I don't do full hazmat decontaminations..

I spoke with the state vet and he said what I've read, Mareks is very common. If read about Mareks in the past with the thought "I hope I never have to deal with that" and I've been re-reading everything like crazy the last few days. There is a lot of doom and gloom information out there but when I spoke to a local breeder that has been super wonderful, answering all my questions about breeding chickens, they acted like it was no big deal, just vaccinate and you're good to go. I remembered I had been in contact with another silkie breeder out of state to get hatching eggs and they said they could start collecting for me right after Christmas, I didn't want to disappear on them so shot them a note that my flock was diagnosed with Mareks so I wouldn't be getting hatching eggs anytime soon but I was going to see how things go and maybe test hatch and vaccinate some local eggs and see how things go. I was expecting and "oh my gosh, yeah you're screwed, you're done with chickens" response, instead I got another, vaccinate and all is good response. This gives me hope for future hatches, my dreams are not squashed, yet are simply needing to be vaccinated

I expect to have more losses, I hope not, but I'm bracing myself for it. At this point I don't expect an issue with my older laying hens, my biggest risk will be my silkies I hatched in July, I'm really attached to them so this will be a very hard journey ahead. My next risk is the chicks I have brooding inside, but I am hopeful the vaccine will do its wonders!

None of the birds currently on my property will be allowed to leave, they will be lifers. I'm going to set up a new coop and runs to put the chicks from the house in, I know the virus is all over the property, but, this will give them a lower viral load to deal with compared to going in were the other chickens were.

Today is vaccination day! And possibly "spend a lot of money on a big shed to turn into a coop" day.

 

[TwoCrows]

My heart breaks for you Tink, we humans involve ourselves with creatures seeking comfort for our life's journey, animals are known to have effects on our pleasure sensors and improve our lives emotionally and physically. But when they become the ones that need the comforting, tables turn and we have to be the ones to heal them, it's draining on our already stressed lives. It's heart wrenching to watch our babies deteriorate and even die with disease. I have never dealt with Mareks in my flocks so I can't offer much in the way of Mareks knowledge. But if you don't mind my rambling thoughts, I can certainly offer emotional support as I certainly have dealt with my share of chicken illness and losses over my chicken keeping times. Our path in life can take us on many roads, some rough, some smooth as glass. There is no greater gift you can give yourself than learning, knowing more today than you did yesterday. And this Mareks journey will not only offer you the opportunity to be the best steward to your flocks, help then live healthier longer lives, but it gives you the opportunity to learn so much about the lives of your birds, what makes them tick, maybe allow you to understand what it's like to be a chicken. As scary as this Mareks sounds, you have the opportunity to really expand your poultry horizons. Maybe help you live in the moment, take one day at a time, case by case, bird by bird and I am sure at some point on down the line, this will all smooth out. Hopefully you won't view this as impossible mountains to climb but a few small hills or bumps in the road that are part of the journey. You can do it Tink, you are a strong gal! ❤

 

[2ndTink]

We vaccinated the 30 silkies and silkie crosses this AM, it was pretty smooth, and I'm satisfied that we'll have no issues vaccinating newly hatched chicks in the future! The smallest chicks did some head shaking and mad peeping after releasing them back in the brooder. The oldest birds seemed completely unphased.

I've been keeping an eye on them all afternoon but they don't seem any worse for the experience.

 

[TwoCrows]

We vaccinated the 30 silkies and silkie crosses this AM, it was pretty smooth, and I'm satisfied that we'll have no issues vaccinating newly hatched chicks in the future! The smallest chicks did some head shaking and mad peeping after releasing them back in the brooder. The oldest birds seemed completely unphased.

I've been keeping an eye on them all afternoon but they don't seem any worse for the experience.

Fabulous! I am sure this gives you some relief and confidence in taming down the Mareks. Glad it all went smoothly and everybody did well. This is a great first step!

 

[2ndTink]

Fabulous! I am sure this gives you some relief and confidence in taming down the Mareks. Glad it all went smoothly and everybody did well. This is a great first step!

I'm really hoping it provides adequate protection, the hard part is that I may not know if it helped for 6 or more months!

 

[TwoCrows]

Happy New Year Tink and all others following along in this thread! Let's keep a positive attitude with all our struggles and hope that 2024 is better than 2023!

 

[2ndTink]

Oops, I wrote a post and didnt post it yesterday!
D+1 on vaccination, you'd never know they all got an injection yesterday, so that is good. The older birds are on Organic All Flock with additions of nutritional yeast, Poultry Cell, and Fertrell Breeder supplement, one at a time, and once or twice a week. The younger chicks are on Organic Chick starter with one of the three supplements added almost daily.

Now it's D+2, still looking 100%.

I do have some questions for future hatches, what can I do to sanitize the eggs before setting? I'll have eggs from other breeders, but if I add eggs from my coop there is a chance there would be virus on the shell. I know it doesn't pass through the egg, but what about any dander on the outside of the shell? As soon as they hatch they flop around all over those shells and it seems it would be best if there was a way to make sure the bacterial and viral load is minimized or eliminated.