Black Copper Marans discussion thread

[Izzymoon]

Hi,
I recieved a Black Copper Marans fro My Pet Chicken in he beginning of May. She was born May 1 or 2nd.As she grows older, I am noting she has one white feather of each wing, and a small amount under her chin (might be chick fuzz still) I have no desire to breed her or anything but curious if she is a true BCM?
I had them outside and she was sunning herself. I also noted she has slight dabbings of copper on her body feathers, which I read was caused by the growing faster than the color can define itself?..her feathers are wonky and all messy too, almost like a frizzle....hope she'll be ok



here's she is as a chick

 

[Alaskan]

Most BCM with their first set of feathers, do have one or three white feathers on their wing edges and sometimes some white scallops on feather edges on the breast, and yes... Also sometimes some copper stippling on the feathers on the back.

When their adult feathers come in is when you will get to see what she will actually look like (totally blanking... When do the adult feathers come in? ... 4 months? 6 months? Arg! Yes I have chickens.... )


Anyway, when the adult feathers come in, so her second set of feathers, is when you will know for sure how close she comes to the standard of perfection.

As to her current feathers being a bit ratty.... I would first look at feed.... Perhaps your last bag wasn't as fresh as it should be, or perhaps it was baked in the truck or car for a few days (so loosing some nutrients). Not a big deal.... Just the first thing to consider. Or perhaps that should be the second thing to consider, and the first thing to think through should be if the other chickens that she is with over preen her, or bully her, or if she likes to perch someplace where her feathers rub against some wire or a wall...etc. Etc.

 

[Metella]

sorry to post here - but I did a search and didn't come up with anything - do you all know anyone who is experimenting with Marans colors? (not the egg color - feathers) I got a cockerel who has the most prolific leg feathering - and he is white - he was given to me - so I am getting second hand and forgetting things - but the person was doing many colors including buff ??? Would love to talk to this person about Marans coloring .....

THANKS

 

[scflock]

Hey snowbird, I happened to see you viewing this thread:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/...os-right-whos-wrong-no-one/4250#post_15421162
I just posted a pic of my bird. Could you drop in and show some of the people on that thread what a real breeder sees when he looks at BCM?

 

[scflock]

Ok, I posted these pics in my thread, so if you guys want to pick him apart for my group to see, feel free. I can't get a good shot of his comb, but in the last pic you can kind of make out the extra points at the base of the rear of his comb. They aren't side sprigs, but there are 2 extra points in line with the others facing the rear. He doesn't always carry his wings that way, it's just very hot here

 

[Ihilani Coffee]

Ok, I posted these pics in my thread, so if you guys want to pick him apart for my group to see, feel free. I can't get a good shot of his comb, but in the last pic you can kind of make out the extra points at the base of the rear of his comb. They aren't side sprigs, but there are 2 extra points in line with the others facing the rear. He doesn't always carry his wings that way, it's just very hot here

Type first: This male narrows considerably from front to back, indicating lack of body capacity. The narrow pelvis will carry down to his daughters. Shallowness of body shows dramatically in the first photo. We can only guess that when this cockbird stands upright, he will show a short back and high tailset. All these points show a lack of substance. The original standards for poultry in the USA were based on production, and these things will affect the size and efficiency of internal organs and digestive function as well as laying ability in his daughters. Not everyone shows their birds (I don't), but the type will have a direct correlation to production in a backyard flock or a show flock. It costs the same to feed a productive bird as it does a poor producer.

Now to color: this male shows shafting and excess copper on the chest, white at the base of tail (unless this is a reflection in the photo), and hackle halo, all undesirable in BCM. The last photo shows what look like bumps on the right side of his comb (not full sprigs, but not smooth either). It would be good to see a clear, in-focus photo of the back of the comb from side and rear angle close up. What color egg (on the Marans chart) did this male hatch out from? Also important to know when breeding as the male's contribution is half your flock. But again, type before color (egg or bird).

From the hens and coop setup in the background, it appears you are breeding your birds. You would help the breed by finding a better male. I know it can be a challenge, as so many have "propagated" BCM rather than breeding quality stock with an eye to improving with each generation and weeding out some of the faults of the breed. I hope something here has been helpful.

 

[scflock]

Type first: This male narrows considerably from front to back, indicating lack of body capacity. The narrow pelvis will carry down to his daughters. Shallowness of body shows dramatically in the first photo. We can only guess that when this cockbird stands upright, he will show a short back and high tailset. All these points show a lack of substance. The original standards for poultry in the USA were based on production, and these things will affect the size and efficiency of internal organs and digestive function as well as laying ability in his daughters. Not everyone shows their birds (I don't), but the type will have a direct correlation to production in a backyard flock or a show flock. It costs the same to feed a productive bird as it does a poor producer.

Now to color: this male shows shafting and excess copper on the chest, white at the base of tail (unless this is a reflection in the photo), and hackle halo, all undesirable in BCM. The last photo shows what look like bumps on the right side of his comb (not full sprigs, but not smooth either). It would be good to see a clear, in-focus photo of the back of the comb from side and rear angle close up. What color egg (on the Marans chart) did this male hatch out from? Also important to know when breeding as the male's contribution is half your flock. But again, type before color (egg or bird).

From the hens and coop setup in the background, it appears you are breeding your birds. You would help the breed by finding a better male. I know it can be a challenge, as so many have "propagated" BCM rather than breeding quality stock with an eye to improving with each generation and weeding out some of the faults of the breed. I hope something here has been helpful.

That's extremely helpful, and exactly the kind of critique I am looking for. I will be breeding, not for show, but I also don't want to further corrupt the breed. Finding quality birds around here is tough, and this was the most decent looking of the 4 I wound up with in a straight run batch. I had no idea about body type, and that's why I tried to take pics from different angls. I knew you guys would see things that I didn't.

He does have shafting and excess copper. I knew this was a fault, but didn't know how bad of a fault, and if it could be bred out. The white at the base of the tail is a reflection. Thankfully, this bird is showing no white. He does have a halo, but much less pronounced than the other 3 I culled. You have a good eye on the comb. They are bumps. Not full sprigs, but not smooth, either. I have tried and tried to get a good picture at the rear of his comb, but I'm just not having any luck between his moving and my trying to hold the phone still. I know the last pic is blurry, but you can make out the extra points. They are more defined than the pic shows. It's like a continuation of the main points, but much smaller. I picked him up at the breeder's, and saw the eggs in the nests. I would say a 6-7 on the marans chart, with a few lighter and a few darker. My pullets just laid their first eggs last week, and they are lighter, but flecked with very dark speckles. Since this is my first attempt with BCM, I don't know if this is typical of pullets' first eggs.

If I read your advice correctly, my biggest concern is the body type? I can see where that would affect laying ability. Do you think it's possible to breed this bird to see what he throws and cull from there, or should I try and find a better cockerel. I don't want to try another straight run batch, and I'm not wild about trying eggs. I know everyone has massive culls, and at least I know what I am working with here. My main goal is dark egg laying chickens, that's what my customers are asking for, but I don't want to add to the evergrowing population of bad birds out there. I have no problem putting birds in the freezer
Here is a pic of the eggs I took in the breeder's storage room. This picture was taken under bright flourescent lights

 

[Alaskan]

My birds have hatched out a range of different body types... So I think that you can work with bad body type....

Not sure about egg color though... Because I am pretty sure all of my first pullet eggs have been super dark.

 

[NTBugtraq]

I'm sorry about the quality of the pictures, but I would appreciate what critical feedback you might have for my roo. I should point out that his comb and 1/2 of one toe fell off this spring due to frostbite in the winter. Also, he was tackled in the bush by two of my Bichons who, I think, stripped his saddle feathers. No sign of them growing back??











Any suggestions on taking better pictures would be appreciated. He's no lovey-dovey guy, he's drawn blood from my ankles on several occasions.

 

[scflock]

My birds have hatched out a range of different body types... So I think that you can work with bad body type....

Not sure about egg color though... Because I am pretty sure all of my first pullet eggs have been super dark.

I will probably try to work him and see what I get, but if the eggs are light this will be a total do-over. At least there's room in the freezer...