Black Copper Marans discussion thread

[ChickenManTN]

Alright, if I'm gonna crash this party I'm wearing my dancing shoes... not going to double-quote, but the reference is to the previous comment. You hatched hundreds of chicks and sold your favorite culls to a special customer. Wow. I'm guessing the first 10 or 20 went to the layer yard, the next 20 to freezer camp, and the majority of the rest to your everyday craigslist dirt farmers. Then comes the customer with a few extra questions and a gleam in his eye. He is the chosen one. He gets the barely-culls. If you have another young, bright-eyed customer with a keen eye and a healthy stride to boot, and she marries the chosen one, and they have superior offspring, when they reach chicken buying age they just might have what it takes to buy the offspring of the selected breeders, if their grades are good enough, and they follow through with those PHDs. What the heck have I gotten myself into?!?! I'm gonna contact those ebay sellers and see if they will take those eggs back...

 

[upthecreek]

Alright, if I'm gonna crash this party I'm wearing my dancing shoes... not going to double-quote, but the reference is to the previous comment. You hatched hundreds of chicks and sold your favorite culls to a special customer. Wow. I'm guessing the first 10 or 20 went to the layer yard, the next 20 to freezer camp, and the majority of the rest to your everyday craigslist dirt farmers. Then comes the customer with a few extra questions and a gleam in his eye. He is the chosen one. He gets the barely-culls. If you have another young, bright-eyed customer with a keen eye and a healthy stride to boot, and she marries the chosen one, and they have superior offspring, when they reach chicken buying age they just might have what it takes to buy the offspring of the selected breeders, if their grades are good enough, and they follow through with those PHDs. What the heck have I gotten myself into?!?! I'm gonna contact those ebay sellers and see if they will take those eggs back...

all right ......... all right ............ stop already ............ i think i'm laughing myself to death ..............Welcome ChickenManTn(lol) , find a good chair , sit down and make yourself at home ........ but seriously close the door behind you when you come in like that ..... we don't want the neighbors to hear what's going on ......

 

[lonnyandrinda]

all right ......... all right ............ stop already ............ i think i'm laughing myself to death ..............Welcome ChickenManTn(lol) , find a good chair , sit down and make yourself at home ........ but seriously close the door behind you when you come in like that ..... we don't want the neighbors to hear what's going on ......

 

[Wynette]

Quote:
Originally Posted by snowbird
Just so everyone knows. It is absolutely normal to get BC, Mahogany and wheat from the breeding of BC Marans. (This was the reason they could not go into the APA as Brown Red like in France).

I don't want to beat a dead horse here (I hate that saying anyway), but I got to wondering about this comment as it didn't seem to ring quite right to me. In an effort to be sure the correct informaiton is out here, I sent an APA judge the quote, to which he replied (and I have been given permission to quote him here):

“In the current APA there is not any allowance for either Straw or Mahogany hackles. This comment seems to suggest otherwise, and that's simply not true. This is where a lot of confusion is going to come in for newcomers if they believe that they can show all three hackle colors. If they were to show them and I was the judge, they would not place - period - since the standard calls for copper hackles."

The Black Copper Marans is genetically not the same as brown/red; from what I have been told, there was never a push to get them accepted as anything other than Black Copper.

I realize Don wasn't indicating one should SHOW a bird with straw or mahogany hackles, but simply stating that he has seen these color hackles in his own flock of Black Coppers and that it is a normal occurrence. I simply wanted to post clarification in regard to showing a bird without the SOP called-for hackle color.

 

[Wynette]

Alright, if I'm gonna crash this party I'm wearing my dancing shoes... not going to double-quote, but the reference is to the previous comment. You hatched hundreds of chicks and sold your favorite culls to a special customer. Wow. I'm guessing the first 10 or 20 went to the layer yard, the next 20 to freezer camp, and the majority of the rest to your everyday craigslist dirt farmers. Then comes the customer with a few extra questions and a gleam in his eye. He is the chosen one. He gets the barely-culls. If you have another young, bright-eyed customer with a keen eye and a healthy stride to boot, and she marries the chosen one, and they have superior offspring, when they reach chicken buying age they just might have what it takes to buy the offspring of the selected breeders, if their grades are good enough, and they follow through with those PHDs. What the heck have I gotten myself into?!?! I'm gonna contact those ebay sellers and see if they will take those eggs back...

Regarding, "I'm guessing the first 10 or 20 went to the layer yard, the next 20 to freezer camp, and the majority of the rest to your everyday craigslist dirt farmers." I'm sure this must be pretty accurate, though I really don't keep that close of track, to be honest. I make more notes on the keepers; when they are culls, I do keep them banded so I know parentage, and list the reasons for the cull, then, once they go to the layer pen, I'm pretty much done with them as far as record keeping.

Your posts are cracking me the heck up, by the way!

 

[snowbird]

Quote:
Originally Posted by snowbird
Just so everyone knows. It is absolutely normal to get BC, Mahogany and wheat from the breeding of BC Marans. (This was the reason they could not go into the APA as Brown Red like in France).

I don't want to beat a dead horse here (I hate that saying anyway), but I got to wondering about this comment as it didn't seem to ring quite right to me. In an effort to be sure the correct informaiton is out here, I sent an APA judge the quote, to which he replied (and I have been given permission to quote him here):

“In the current APA there is not any allowance for either Straw or Mahogany hackles. This comment seems to suggest otherwise, and that's simply not true. This is where a lot of confusion is going to come in for newcomers if they believe that they can show all three hackle colors. If they were to show them and I was the judge, they would not place - period - since the standard calls for copper hackles."

The Black Copper Marans is genetically not the same as brown/red; from what I have been told, there was never a push to get them accepted as anything other than Black Copper.

I realize Don wasn't indicating one should SHOW a bird with straw or mahogany hackles, but simply stating that he has seen these color hackles in his own flock of Black Coppers and that it is a normal occurrence. I simply wanted to post clarification in regard to showing a bird without the SOP called-for hackle color.

Wynette, Too much is put into what this or that Judge thinks about the APA SOP. Very few Judge were involved in the approval of the BC Marans. The original proposal was to have the BC enter the same as the French and that was Brown Red.

No where in your wildest dream did I state that it would be ok to show the straw or Mahogany color. I will say this there are Mahogany color being showed and there will be more in the future. I was a member in the first year of paid membership of the MCOA Club. I have been around longer than most realize. I get emails asking why I do not post much anymore and this will explain. It is so easy to turn around someones post and make it look like something that it is not. No more comments from me.

 

[Wynette]

Wynette, Too much is put into what this or that Judge thinks about the APA SOP. Very few Judge were involved in the approval of the BC Marans. The original proposal was to have the BC enter the same as the French and that was Brown Red.

No where in your wildest dream did I state that it would be ok to show the straw or Mahogany color. I will say this there are Mahogany color being showed and there will be more in the future. I was a member in the first year of paid membership of the MCOA Club. I have been around longer than most realize. I get emails asking why I do not post much anymore and this will explain. It is so easy to turn around someones post and make it look like something that it is not. No more comments from me.

Please re-read my last paragraph, where I DID state that you were not indicating wheaten or mahogany hackled birds should be shown. I simply wanted it to be clear to new folks making breeding decisions that it's a fault and birds with this feature may not even be placed.

I can't speak to whether you are correct in your comment about entering them as brown/red in the SOP as I do not know that for sure (I have asked and not been given information by the club's officers to be able to state one way or another...were you an officer back then, Don?), but perhaps that is when the genetics information was uncovered - again, brown/red is different genetically from Black Copper. Regardless, though, the SOP is what we should be breeding to. Commenting about pre-SOP discussions really is a moot point now that we have an approved standard.

 

[upthecreek]

Quote:

I don't want to beat a dead horse here (I hate that saying anyway), but I got to wondering about this comment as it didn't seem to ring quite right to me. In an effort to be sure the correct informaiton is out here, I sent an APA judge the quote, to which he replied (and I have been given permission to quote him here):

“In the current APA there is not any allowance for either Straw or Mahogany hackles. This comment seems to suggest otherwise, and that's simply not true. This is where a lot of confusion is going to come in for newcomers if they believe that they can show all three hackle colors. If they were to show them and I was the judge, they would not place - period - since the standard calls for copper hackles."

The Black Copper Marans is genetically not the same as brown/red; from what I have been told, there was never a push to get them accepted as anything other than Black Copper.

I realize Don wasn't indicating one should SHOW a bird with straw or mahogany hackles, but simply stating that he has seen these color hackles in his own flock of Black Coppers and that it is a normal occurrence. I simply wanted to post clarification in regard to showing a bird without the SOP called-for hackle color.

Wynette, Too much is put into what this or that Judge thinks about the APA SOP. Very few Judge were involved in the approval of the BC Marans. The original proposal was to have the BC enter the same as the French and that was Brown Red.

No where in your wildest dream did I state that it would be ok to show the straw or Mahogany color. I will say this there are Mahogany color being showed and there will be more in the future. I was a member in the first year of paid membership of the MCOA Club. I have been around longer than most realize. I get emails asking why I do not post much anymore and this will explain. It is so easy to turn around someones post and make it look like something that it is not. No more comments from me.

Thanks Snowbird

 

[ChickenManTN]

all right ......... all right ............ stop already ............ i think i'm laughing myself to death ..............Welcome ChickenManTn(lol) , find a good chair , sit down and make yourself at home ........ but seriously close the door behind you when you come in like that ..... we don't want the neighbors to hear what's going on ......

Thank you!
I believe snowbird closed the door behind me.

 

[Wynette]

Thank you!
I believe snowbird closed the door behind me.

He locked me out!