Black Copper Marans discussion thread

[marquisella]

Haven't been on this thread in a long time, but have to tell of an experience we had locally with a nationally known judge.

After the judging, curious as to why he placed the birds as he did, I asked him point blank, why was this bird BOB. His response? I don't know much about Marans, but he was in the best condition, so he won! You could have picked me up off the floor...

There is no excuse for any judge to not know what new breeds standards are because they are sent the standards for all new breeds shortly after they are accepted..

White earlobes are a fault ,, not sure if its a dq.

If you go to the French Marans site on the internet, they have a paragraph about black ear tuffs. They suggest to not use birds with black tuffs as its an indication of over melanization...again that word...LOL

 

[DMRippy]

White earlobes are a dq in all breeds with red earlobes.

 

[xlboergoats]

Haven't been on this thread in a long time, but have to tell of an experience we had locally with a nationally known judge.

After the judging, curious as to why he placed the birds as he did, I asked him point blank, why was this bird BOB. His response? I don't know much about Marans, but he was in the best condition, so he won! You could have picked me up off the floor...

There is no excuse for any judge to not know what new breeds standards are because they are sent the standards for all new breeds shortly after they are accepted..

White earlobes are a fault ,, not sure if its a dq.

If you go to the French Marans site on the internet, they have a paragraph about black ear tuffs. They suggest to not use birds with black tuffs as its an indication of over melanization...again that word...LOL

I feel your pain. We have had much the same experiences with a few of the judges that are just not familiar with Marans. It is truly aggravating to breed toward the Standard and then the judge not use it in judging. There are some judges who we are always happy to see them judging the Marans. I am comfortable saying this because I have had birds place from the top to the bottom of the class under them. There are a few that we hope have gained some experience since the last time we saw them.

We use both black ear tuffed males and copper ear tuffed males. We prefer to use the ones with copper tuffs, but sometimes the darker tuffed male has something to offer some of the females in our breeding pens. We place birds in our breeding pens based on strengths and weaknesses. We look at each bird as an individual and make decisions based on his or her strengths and/or weaknesses.

Regards,
Ernie Haire
Arp, Texas
www.Marans2XL.com

 

[marquisella]

Quote: I know, we have to pick out what we need to improve on. It always seems the best roo, with the black breast, has black ear tuffs...2 years ago I have very dark eggs, mostly 7 on our clubs chart. So I did what most people would do, I think, kept only those chicks who hatched from those eggs. The rooster who sired those chicks, had nice black breast, great combs, and probably were the best rooster I have produced. Am I complaining? Well, this year, I am getting fairly dark eggs, not as dark as before, but I am also getting clean legged chicks. That clean leg gene has obviously been concentrated in my flock and its rearinng its head now. What I'm taking from this is, I will definnitely keep any chick that has feathered legs, they should not have the recessive gene at all, I think..Unfortunately a fox killed 3 of my promising cockerels last fall, so I'm down to just 2 boys who will definitely go and not be used again due to the clean leg issue.

Its always something...breeding is so much fun!

 

[pinkchick]

I know, we have to pick out what we need to improve on. It always seems the best roo, with the black breast, has black ear tuffs...2 years ago I have very dark eggs, mostly 7 on our clubs chart. So I did what most people would do, I think, kept only those chicks who hatched from those eggs. The rooster who sired those chicks, had nice black breast, great combs, and probably were the best rooster I have produced.  Am I complaining? Well, this year, I am getting fairly dark eggs, not as dark as before, but I am also getting clean legged chicks.  That clean leg gene has obviously been concentrated in my flock and its rearinng its head now.  What I'm taking from this is, I will definnitely keep any chick that has feathered legs, they should not have the recessive gene at all, I think..Unfortunately a fox killed 3 of my promising cockerels last fall, so I'm down to just 2 boys who will definitely go and not be used again due to the clean leg issue.

Its always something...breeding is so much fun!

Hi Sue! Hope you are doing great!

I think and could very well be wrong........but think just because they have feathered legs doesn't mean they can't carry one copy of the clean legged gene. There are 3 genes involved with the shank feathering 2 dominant and 1 recessive (the clean legged gene), put 2 birds together that are feather shanked and both carry one copy of the clean legged gene and you will get some clean legged chicks even though they came from parents whom both were feather shanked. This is how I understand it anyway. I also have been down this road and even up until my last hatch a month ago got 2 clean legged chicks out of single matings with parents who both had great shank feathering and outer toe feathering. I also got 2 chicks with the extreme opposite effect from the same mating....both had extreme short outer toes (one didn't have any toenails at all and the other had toenails that pointed straight up) but both were outrageously feathered on shanks and outer toes.

Anyway, my point is that, I now believe that both my rooster and that particular hen carry the recessive gene. New pairings with a new cockerel I have been growing out are in the works now and I am waiting for clean out time to end before setting new eggs to test mate.

 

[pinkchick]

Oh and Sue, sorry to read about the fox getting those 2 young cockerels.

 

[flgardengirl]

I know, we have to pick out what we need to improve on. It always seems the best roo, with the black breast, has black ear tuffs...2 years ago I have very dark eggs, mostly 7 on our clubs chart. So I did what most people would do, I think, kept only those chicks who hatched from those eggs. The rooster who sired those chicks, had nice black breast, great combs, and probably were the best rooster I have produced. Am I complaining? Well, this year, I am getting fairly dark eggs, not as dark as before, but I am also getting clean legged chicks. That clean leg gene has obviously been concentrated in my flock and its rearinng its head now. What I'm taking from this is, I will definnitely keep any chick that has feathered legs, they should not have the recessive gene at all, I think..Unfortunately a fox killed 3 of my promising cockerels last fall, so I'm down to just 2 boys who will definitely go and not be used again due to the clean leg issue.

Its always something...breeding is so much fun!

Sorry to hear of your fox troubles. I had 3 really good Marans cockerals and some laying hens taken by foxes this summer. Ours was a red fox and really impossible to trap. We tried about everything. I caught him on our trail cam taking hens. One of the neighbors finally sat in wait for him one night and shot him. Then a younger fox showed up in his place about a month later. I think someone must of shot him too because he hasn't been around in about a month.
I was losing laying hens in broad daylight to that first fox. He even chased a big fat broad breasted turkey hen (she is way bigger than him) all the way up to our house at 10am. She rocks back and forth when she runs and its almost comical -like a wrecking ball with feet lol! I didn't know she could even run that fast. I'm surprised she didn't have a stroke! The fox bolted when he saw me. I'm so mad I didn't have a gun on me that time. We definitely have been having our share of predators this year. Foxes and racoons have been the worst!

 

[marquisella]

Quote: Ok, thanks Pink, for bursting my bubble! LOL

I jsut hope, that the feathered leg birds I hatched, have less chance of producing clean legged birds...because I have so many with clean legs this year....I can hope can't I? LOL

As far as the toe length thing...don't jinx me, so far I haven't noticed that in my birds...yet. with feather legs, all things are possible...!

As we continue to breed one line or another, these things are making their appearance. I hate to outcross, but maybe its time for me. I know the original Marans that came here to the US were from England, and so the clean leg gene is probably more prominant that we even imagine. Tiime will tell....

 

[marquisella]

Quote: My fox, comes right up to the barn, sees me, and just stands there looking at me. I have to start running at him yelling before he goes away. Needless to say, I don't let my chickens out free ranging anymore...I just got some Brabanters....they don't eat much and lay well....just thought I'd throw that in...LOL

 

[flgardengirl]

I am envious of your Brabanters they are so cool looking! Good to know about the egg to feed ratio too. Yes keep them locked up tight. What's up with all these critters being so bold lately?? I don't think some of the hens I had, that got taken by foxes were even really scared of the fox. It looked like on one trail cam scenario that he practically walked right up to a hen and she didn't even run away. I am only letting my layer pen girls and boys out to free range now when someone can be out there to watch them. I don't let my best hens and roos out at all, except once in a while right before they go to bed while I stand right there with them. I don't have trouble getting them back in cuz they go to the coop soon as it gets dark. We had a racoon or something bust right through the plywood roof of a brooder coop last week (Posted the pic on the main Marans thread). Its not like its been a dry year here or anything either-just the opposite. There are plenty of wild rabbits etc for the predators to eat. They just decided they like chicken better grrr.