Black Copper Marans discussion thread

[Ripster]

Local birds are the best and I would be happy to help with distance education. lol

 

[Ripster]

Sweatpea 3829,

Here's a link to the Marans standard of perfection approved by the APA. There's also links to the variety standards approved so far.

http://www.maranschickenclubusa.com/StandardofPerfection.html

 

[Sweetpea3829]

Ok everyone, first set of questions:

1) What is wheaton? Can somebody post a picture? Perhaps I'll come across a picture in the thread, but as of page 10, I've seen it mentioned a few times and would like an idea of what it looks like (other than the chipmunk chicks).

2) What are "sports"?

3) As for the breeding. Ok...I have your basic college biology background with genetics. You know...BB + bb will give you Bb, Bb, Bb, Bb. Now, my understanding of breeding comes from my understanding of dog breeding (which is still pretty minimal). For example...I have two dogs. Both are "Boxadors"...aka labrador/boxer mixes. They both have the same appearance, with one being quite a bit larger than the other.

Now, if I were to breed one of my Boxadors to a pure boxer, the offspring would still be mixed breed. No matter how many generations I breed the offspring back to a pure Boxer, there will always be the lab genetics in the pups, yes? Or can the lab be bred out of them?

Now, with chickens, I saw mention that a certain roo might throw a Wheaton, or a Blue. Is this offspring considered a mutt then? What about the parent that threw a chick of the wrong breed? Does this indicate that the parent is not actually a pure Marans?

What about with inbreeding? Is this acceptable with chickens? Or do they need to be from different parental lines?


ETA: I found pictures of the wheaton. I'm not entirely sure how they're much different from the BCM, aside from perhaps they have more color to them?

 

[TheWineMaker]

:cd  I'll try that with mine!

I tried it and look it worked. Lol.

 

[NYREDS]

I'm green myself, but here's what I have gathered so far: To truly breed for conformation you have to cull hundreds upon hundreds of offspring. That's pretty much the starting point. Establish a model for raising hundreds of birds and disposing of culls, be it through phasing them out into laying or meat production at home or selling them for others to use. If you find a trio for sale, I would bet my lunch money that they are someone else's culls. As I said, I'm still green, but if you want the best of the best I believe the thing to do is buy plenty of hatching eggs or chicks from a good breeder. If you buy adult birds, you can be fairly certain that they are not what the breeder considers to be breeding quality, or else they wouldn't be for sale. There are always exceptions, but they are rare, I believe.

You'd be wrong. Of buying adult birds, buying chicks & buying hatching eggs the best way to start out is with adult birds. For one thing you see immediately what you're starting with. Many breeders of quality birds sell birds that represent a good starting point. That said, you get bwhat you pay for always applies. As a general rule good birds won't be cheap.
Speaking for myself, on more than one occasion I have sold birds to people who showed them a few weeks later & beat me. There's no better advertising than that.

 

[DeltaBluezTess]

I found a local mentor who taught me a lot. She saw my passion and handpicks some of her best stock and got me started. I asked a millions questions and she was so kind.

If a good breeder really sees you are really passionate, they will help you. I mean for furthering the breed and not for the money.

Join the Marans Club and get to meet the folks. You will have a great resource. That is what I did and some of the folks are just great! Some are on this list!


I am going to repay my mentor by letting her pick of my Legbars, Isbars or Spitzs when she is ready.

 

[Broad St Farm]

Ok everyone, first set of questions:

1) What is wheaton? Can somebody post a picture? Perhaps I'll come across a picture in the thread, but as of page 10, I've seen it mentioned a few times and would like an idea of what it looks like (other than the chipmunk chicks).

2) What are "sports"?

3) As for the breeding. Ok...I have your basic college biology background with genetics. You know...BB + bb will give you Bb, Bb, Bb, Bb. Now, my understanding of breeding comes from my understanding of dog breeding (which is still pretty minimal). For example...I have two dogs. Both are "Boxadors"...aka labrador/boxer mixes. They both have the same appearance, with one being quite a bit larger than the other.

Now, if I were to breed one of my Boxadors to a pure boxer, the offspring would still be mixed breed. No matter how many generations I breed the offspring back to a pure Boxer, there will always be the lab genetics in the pups, yes? Or can the lab be bred out of them?

Now, with chickens, I saw mention that a certain roo might throw a Wheaton, or a Blue. Is this offspring considered a mutt then? What about the parent that threw a chick of the wrong breed? Does this indicate that the parent is not actually a pure Marans?

What about with inbreeding? Is this acceptable with chickens? Or do they need to be from different parental lines?


ETA: I found pictures of the wheaton. I'm not entirely sure how they're much different from the BCM, aside from perhaps they have more color to them?

Wheaton Marans to a person who is unfamiliure with the differences can get them confused and make a HUGE mistake crossing Black Coppers and Wheatons together. The female differences are obvious but the males have suttle differences. First get a photo of each to compare. The Wheaton has almost white legs compared to the Black Coppers Gray/Slate legs which are darker. Next The hackle coloring tends to typically be a bit more golden hue to them in the Wheaton. You will here people talk about halos. That the yellowish color at the bottom of the hackles. If a Black Copper Male has this, people tend to think the genetics have wheaton in them. Last BIG tell tale is the brown wing triangle. Look at the folded up wing of a Wheaton and you will notice that the bottom portion of the wing which is shaped like a triangle is brown. This should not be on a BCM.

A good book to get on learning chicken genetics is the Chicken Colors book. Its great but expensive. Also their are a lot of Marans genetic forums online. As for breeding, if you take your time, get reliable stock so you know that they havent been crossed you shouldnt have to worry about getting odd color varieties. Thats not to say you wont have a lot of culls, or get a BCM that doesnt have a little wheaton influence. The Black Copper went through many different stages to be where they are now and have been crossed with other breeds a long time ago. Its our job to stabilize them them and not screw them up more. Take your time and read the thread. All the info will come up, and chances are as you read and a question comes up, you will find your answer in here. Many people have come here asking relatively the same questions.

Last but not least, for everyone that looks for mentors, If you are looking for someone that is suppose to far exceed your knowledge so they help. Pick them wisely. Get to know them, see what they can offer. But if you pick the wrong person, it may hurt you more than help. You will be basing a lot of your decisions off what they teach you. This isnt a cheap hobby. If they teach you the wrong info your flock can become a waste of time and money and you will either give up or start over. Just think we want competent people managing our retirement. You look for good stock right? You spend thousands of dollars on Marans, all the time, the aggravation. And you rely on a another persons input to help guide you. Just take your time. If you find someone that is fairly new and you get along, learn together.

Any way, good luck. Forgive my spelling Im tired.

 

[Broad St Farm]

Hi everyone. My husband and I are brand new to the world of chickens and successfully hatched our first flock this past summer. We are still waiting for our ladies to begin laying, but they are due any time now. Our current flock was hatched from eggs given to us by our Mennonite neighbor. They are pretty much barnyard mutts, with the exception of our barred rock roo and our barred rock hen.

We would like to work with the Black Copper Marans and are looking for a high quality breeding trio in our area. We want to do this the right way, and breed for conformation both in the bird and the egg color.

As we are still pretty new to this, we obviously have a lot to learn and are reading and researching. But at 800 pages, this particular thread is quite long, lol.

Can anybody give me a concise run-down of what we need to know and how we can perhaps find a good quality trio out this way.

We are located in the Finger Lakes region of upstate NY. About an hour and fifteen minutes from Rochester and an hour and fifteen minutes from Syracuse.

On a side note, I know the area your at. I was stationed at Ft. Drum NY for 4 years. I use to go to Syracuse a lot and when I would come home I would cut through Canada a lot. Beautiful area.

 

[DMRippy]

WheatEn....not WheatOn.

I see that all the time.....like marans without an s

and

and waddles v wattles.

 

[upthecreek]

WheatEn....not WheatOn.

I see that all the time.....like marans without an s

and

and waddles v wattles.

Thank You

That favors me .........