Black Copper Marans discussion thread

[CristinaB]

keep breeding back to sire or dam and you will get darker eggs.

Isn't this considered inbreeding? I would think that breeding back to the parents would create problems and eventually degrade the quality of the bird.

Of course, I am new to the world of chicken breeding, so maybe chickens do not have inbreeding issues like humans do.

 

[DMRippy]

Quote:

keep breeding back to sire or dam and you will get darker eggs.

Isn't this considered inbreeding? I would think that breeding back to the parents would create problems and eventually degrade the quality of the bird.

Of course, I am new to the world of chicken breeding, so maybe chickens do not have inbreeding issues like humans do.

The no no with chickens seems to be brother to sister matings. Sire to dam is very normal and is called line breeding.......

 

[Ihilani Coffee]

The no no with chickens seems to be brother to sister matings. Sire to dam is very normal and is called line breeding.......

I agree with CristinaB about the terminology. I understand that son-dam and daughter-sire backcrossing is most often done with poultry and is a good way to get results quickly (like darker eggs). It is still inbreeding but of a different sort than full siblings for example (concentrating 50% of the genetics rather than 100%). I have to trust that birds are different than mammals and that the experienced breeders who share their knowledge here with us newbies have years or decades of experience with poultry and know their bird genetics! With livestock (mammals) this type of inbreeding is very tricky and can have disastrous results...and people are not so willing to cull in the way we do with poultry (to the freezer) with cute puppies or foals or whatever.

Any close breeding system simply concentrates the genetics, good and bad. With mammals we often line breed, which to me is nothing closer than grandsire to granddaughter, etc. or mating animals that have ancestors in common (concentrating 25% of the genetics or less) to keep that particular animal's genetics at a higher percentage in the pedigree. With humans there are also the cultural taboos of incest, etc. Royal families from many cultures have practiced close inbreeding for one reason or another, and just locked up those in whom the genetic lineup was less than optimum. The ones that "nicked" however often went on to establish strong and lasting dynasties.

 

[DMRippy]

I understand the taboos. I try to have 2 lines so I can cross pullets from one line over to the other and back and forth. Same lines but different blood sort of. If you can only have one set of birds you can breed them back to sire or dam.

I do keep up with what pen the birds come from and try to NEVER breed birds together from the same pen.... BUT sometimes you have to do what you have to do. I have a pair of white wyandottes and they were from the same hatch but nobody around here has white wyandottes and I had no intentions of breeding them..... well chicken math struck. The chicks are very hearty and HUGE. I have no problem putting the pullets back with their sire and a nice roo over his dam.

There are some breeds that are too inbreed and have issues with fertility and vigor in the chicks.... those are really disappointing to have too. We are talking about years and years of breeding too close. I love it when I get birds from one breeder and 2-3 pens. I feel much better about those birds than all from one pen. Small gene pools can be a problem too. I have seen that in several breeds, Tolbunts cant stay alive, SFH are not as bad but not really hearty birds..... I could list lots more.

 

[carriebain]

Dmrippy, can you post a couple of pictures of the roosters you use in your breeding pen. For educational purposes, please? I want to see what I should be looking for when I choose my cockerel stud! Or should I say stallion

 

[DMRippy]

Dmrippy, can you post a couple of pictures of the roosters you use in your breeding pen. For educational purposes, please? I want to see what I should be looking for when I choose my cockerel stud! Or should I say stallion

There are lots of great birds on this thread. You need to pick a roo that compliments your birds. I got lucky and ended up with 2 nice roos from pinkchick. They started my birds off on a good footing. They have both since died and I have been on the hunt every since. I will post pic of the roos I got from her flock.

This roo gave me pullets with copper hackles. He was BLUE not splash.



This is his darker brother



This roo Vicki helped me pic from my first birds. He never really produced pullets with copper. He had some copper on his breast too.

I have a young roo growing out from him and he is looking pretty good so far.



Finding good roos is SOOOOOOO Hard. I got really lucky with pinkchicks roos and wish I still had them. I was going to put the coppered pullets back with their sire to see if they would breed true with the copper but alas he died just before they started to lay.

Perfect birds are not going to happen. You have to pick your battles and work on those....then next year when you have those issues down, pick your next battles and work on them.

 

[Brada Puhi]

Holy Cannoli!!! Lookie what i found in the coop today!! my first 8 !!!! it's true they do exist and are not the stuff of legend...

i was so excited it washed it...stupid me I should have tried to hatch it!!

Aloha,

That bugger is awesome!

As long as you know which hen it came from, you have the same chance of getting the darkest egg gene. The egg color has more to do with the genetics of the mother bird and not the DNA of the 8 egg.

Hatch away!

kden, Puhi

 

[Runawaylobster]

Aloha,

That bugger is awesome!

As long as you know which hen it came from, you have the same chance of getting the darkest egg gene. The egg color has more to do with the genetics of the mother bird and not the DNA of the 8 egg.

Hatch away!

kden, Puhi

ah... sadly i dont know which hen it came from. but it is so weird because it came from what i call the Luxury coop (it's the one where the hens get the upgraded digs LOL!!) but everyone in that coop is molting pretty much. who would have thought such an egg would come from a coop full of molting hens.. PLUS it was random because every hen in the coop is at the end of their first year laying cycle and i've never seen any of them produce an egg like that before. Still.. all the hens in there are going to be line bred back to their sons so i'm sure to capture those genes somewhere...

 

[CristinaB]

So do any of you folks have good photos of your Show quality roos? I would love to see them! Would help get an idea of what is worth acquiring and what is cull material.

 

[Runawaylobster]

Quote:
Hey Donna, I still have Blue, the little guy who hatched from his eggs right before your guy passed. He is my Star Roo (see my avatar), After trying several hens he produced a nice girl with lots of copper... even though the mom hen didn't have any copper?? anyhow I am also keeping one of his sons who is looking awesome too. i'm happy to send some hatching eggs when the girls stop their Moult if you want some of his offsprings.., just let me know. Blue has sparse feathering but paired with the right female his offsprings have fabulous leg feathers,