Black Copper Marans discussion thread

[blackbirds13]

Quote:
The girls hatched in the middle of August - about the 17th. I have pullets from both Wynette (hatched from eggs) and Fancy Chicks (won in a rarebreeds auction). They all have the same time hatch time frame. The super dark is a Wynette bird so she gets all the credit as it's her hard work... I just hope to carry on the tradition. My BCM boy is from Wynette's eggs and I have Splash from a different source. My BCM boy is not perfect but that is a hard to almost impossible task so I'm going to work with what I have for now and see what I can improve upon going forward.

When it comes to ebay I just pay really close attention to their feedback and then email them prior to bidding. There are folks on BYC that sell on ebay. I've had some bad experiences but mostly I've had good ones on ebay but my best experiences have been from members, information or networking here.

 

[Wynette]

Just a question, though, from someone who is a Rock n' Red breeder and otherwise ignorant of the Marans, but doesn't the Marans have a requirement for a dark egg? In other words, isn't the egg shell color integral to the bird being bred to the standard? Excuse the dumb question, perhaps.

YES, if they don't lay a minimum of a "4"on the Marans Egg Color chart, they are not considered a Marans. That said, per DMR below, it's not an SOP requirement, so judging a Marans, just like judging other colored egg layers such as Ameraucanas or Welsummers, is based soley on type.

Not in the SOP no. It a trait that makes them unique but not require by the SOP. You can get egg color back. It will be lost if you bring in new birds and such so not a cull point at my farm.

I disagree about getting dark egg color back; it's not an easy task, IMO. There is very little research that's been done on the genetics of egg color. It's been said that you can lose egg color if you breed a different line into your existing one, but I have not found this to be true. Just my own personal experience, though.

It is my understanding that to be considered a marans the bird should lay at least a "4" on the standardized marans egg chart. This is not checked for at shows and not stated in the SOP. Last year I hatched many and currently have about 40 pullets culled down to. This season I am only breeding the 5-8 darkest layers back to their dads. I plan to show birds and to work at darker egg colour. Maybe I am reaching for the stars but I figure i've got a few years left. With enough birds on the ground I see no reason to breed one that lays a light egg unless it is all you have to work with. I have 8 pullets from a single mated pair. All have good type and lay a slightly different shade of egg. Only the darkest two will be bred forward. Some say you must breed for show or egg colour. Why not both? Maybe I can say in a few more years

I personally DO believe you can have both - I certainly do! My birds (and birds hatched from my line) have won reserve and champion Continental titles...and I have also won many egg shows. Not to toot my own horn, in fact, I'm extremely uncomfortable about that, but - wanted to share my observations. I WILL say that for me, type is the most important. Once I was satisfied with the egg color I was seeing, I began culling for type. I definitely do not see "9" eggs in my nest boxes, and only very rarely see a true "8" either, but most definitely, my hens average a 6/7 at their prime.

The girls hatched in the middle of August - about the 17th. I have pullets from both Wynette (hatched from eggs) and Fancy Chicks (won in a rarebreeds auction). They all have the same time hatch time frame. The super dark is a Wynette bird so she gets all the credit as it's her hard work... I just hope to carry on the tradition. My BCM boy is from Wynette's eggs and I have Splash from a different source. My BCM boy is not perfect but that is a hard to almost impossible task so I'm going to work with what I have for now and see what I can improve upon going forward.

When it comes to ebay I just pay really close attention to their feedback and then email them prior to bidding. There are folks on BYC that sell on ebay. I've had some bad experiences but mostly I've had good ones on ebay but my best experiences have been from members, information or networking here.

With my line, good males are few & far between, unfortunately. I'm working hard to not have to have separate male/female lines. However, when a really nice male comes along, they are VERY very nice. They're just not coming along often enough in this line! I'm hoping to improve on that as I move forward.

 

[Zanna]

Quote: Thanks Wynette, I assumed you were working on both! You have to get enough birds on the ground though to be able to do it and you have to be willing to grow out those pullets and let them lay for a while before you make you decisions. It is a lot of work and more of a time investment which makes this breed more of a challenge than some others!

 

[DeltaBluezTess]

Be careful with ebay... I am not saying you couldn't get eggs from superb stock there but things are not always what they appear to be... That really pertains to any egg/chick purchase. Do your homework before you buy! Ask the right questions and make sure you know the sop and what your goals are. I started out with ebay eggs and was quite naive as a novice. I did not fare well. There were a lot of unsubstantiated claims in those listings.... There are some excellent people who contribute to this forum so you can learn much of what you need to know by following this string and asking questions.

i know one breeder (personally ) on ebay who sells eggs. I do buy eggs from her but not anyone else. If I buy eggs I get them from other reputable breeders. I have quite a nice flock. I just was shocked to see a pretty much solid copper chest rooster....I was actually looking at purses and got sidetracked by looking at the Marans......my first and now former flock was an example of "what NOT to get" ...all gone now and pretty much was a hideous flock...tons of copper on chest on hens and rooster, egg color 4 all the time, poor conformation an d poor layers....I met up with a local noted breeder and she educated me and got me a great flock to start over with.....I have heard tons of horror stories about ebay and eggs...buy from a reputable breeder.

 

[johnderosa1]

i know one breeder (personally ) on ebay who sells eggs. I do buy eggs from her but not anyone else. If I buy eggs I get them from other reputable breeders. I have quite a nice flock. I just was shocked to see a pretty much solid copper chest rooster....I was actually looking at purses and got sidetracked by looking at the Marans......my first and now former flock was an example of "what NOT to get" ...all gone now and pretty much was a hideous flock...tons of copper on chest on hens and rooster, egg color 4 all the time, poor conformation an d poor layers....I met up with a local noted breeder and she educated me and got me a great flock to start over with.....I have heard tons of horror stories about ebay and eggs...buy from a reputable breeder.

Funny how easy it is to get distracted when cruising ebay and wind up sneaking a peak at the hatching eggs

 

[johnderosa1]

YES, if they don't lay a minimum of a "4"on the Marans Egg Color chart, they are not considered a Marans.  That said, per DMR below, it's not an SOP requirement, so judging a Marans, just like judging other colored egg layers such as Ameraucanas or Welsummers, is based soley on type.

I disagree about getting dark egg color back; it's not an easy task, IMO.  There is very little research that's been done on the genetics of egg color.  It's been said that you can lose egg color if you breed a different line into your existing one, but I have not found this to be true.  Just my own personal experience, though.


I personally DO believe you can have both - I certainly do!  My birds (and birds hatched from my line) have won reserve and champion Continental titles...and I have also won many egg shows.  Not to toot my own horn, in fact, I'm extremely uncomfortable about that, but - wanted to share my observations.  I WILL say that for me, type is the most important.  Once I was satisfied with the egg color I was seeing, I began culling for type.  I definitely do not see "9" eggs in my nest boxes, and only very rarely see a true "8" either, but most definitely, my hens average a 6/7 at their prime. 

With my line, good males are few & far between, unfortunately.  I'm working hard to not have to have separate male/female lines.  However, when a really nice male comes along, they are VERY very nice.  They're just not coming along often enough in this line!  I'm hoping to improve on that as I move forward.

Go ahead and toot that horn Wynette!!! You've earned it!

 

[Ihilani Coffee]

YES, if they don't lay a minimum of a "4"on the Marans Egg Color chart, they are not considered a Marans. That said, per DMR below, it's not an SOP requirement, so judging a Marans, just like judging other colored egg layers such as Ameraucanas or Welsummers, is based soley on type.

My understanding is that they need to lay a minimum 4 throughout the laying cycle, is that correct? Mine always start out as 6-7 with a few 8-ish, then lighten later on. If a hen laid a 4 at the beginning and lightened to less, that is not considered Marans as I understand it. Type is most important!

 

[DeltaBluezTess]

Funny how easy it is to get distracted when cruising ebay and wind up sneaking a peak at the hatching eggs

I never did get the Brahmin purse either....the one I like was over $200 a bit out of my price range!

 

[Wynette]

Go ahead and toot that horn Wynette!!! You've earned it!

Awe...you're making me blush. Thanks so much for the kind comment!

My understanding is that they need to lay a minimum 4 throughout the laying cycle, is that correct? Mine always start out as 6-7 with a few 8-ish, then lighten later on. If a hen laid a 4 at the beginning and lightened to less, that is not considered Marans as I understand it. Type is most important!

I've seen folks mention that before (through their laying cycle) and I am not 100% sure on that; I WILL say that my hens certainly do! If they didn't, they would not be in my breeder pen. THAT SAID - I do have a couple of very old hens (4 & 5 years old...this will be their last year in the breeder pen) that probably lay as light as a 4. Not nearly as dark as they once did, but their dark egg genetics are still there.

Another comment. I see folks state fairly often that they have hens that lay an 8 - I'm not saying I don't believe they are out there, but I WILL say that many folks judge their own eggs to be darker than they actually are. I just noticed an example of this at the Newnan, GA show a few weeks ago. There was a Marans egg show there, and one of the club folks mentioned the winning eggs were an 8 - well, when I compared them to the egg color card, to ME, they were clearly a 6. Don't get me wrong, they were beautiful eggs, but most definitely not an 8.

I agree with you, ihilani - if a hen STARTED laying at a 4, it wouldn't make it to my breed pen. And yes, type "should" be the most important. That said, I have no bones to pick with someone wanting to breed for egg color only - BUT - if you do, please let your customers know they are not being bred for exhibition, but egg color only. Not a thing wrong with that - after all, isn't the egg what we all were attracted to with Marans in the first place?

 

[DeltaBluezTess]

I punched a hole in each of the eggs in my egg chart...that way I can put the egg behind the egg and it can match to the real color when it blends in! Before I did this, I was guessing at least one number above and when I did this, it showed that I had overjudged.