Black Copper Marans discussion thread

[snowbird]

I posted this cockerel before, and there was a question about if he is roach backed. I am not sure. Feeling his back it does feel rounded from side to side, but there is not a hump or anything from neck to tail. I have taken quite a few pictures in different positions and lighting. These are all the same bird, hatched in Jan so almost 5 months old. Opinions please!

Mary, I do not think he has a roach back, I think his back angle starts off a little low making the back appear high in the middle. if you like him he should produce some nice colored females with him having all the breast color. most of the Males from him would most likely be over colored. His type is what I generally pick. Don

 

[Ihilani Coffee]

Aloha Mia,

The female should have some copper in her neck. Not like the rooster but still, should have some. Also, the leg feathering should be more heavy. Kind of hard to tell the rest of the stuff.

But Most importantly is egg color! Too many people lose sight of the single most important attribute to the marans and that is egg color!

We only have one hen from this particular line, but the eggs that they came from were dark. So she will be our main hen as far as Iʻm concerned. The roosters too.

All this SOP BS is in a distant second place as far as Iʻm concerned. Nevertheless, it is very possible to do both. Just be more selective.

Kden, Puhi

I disagree Puhi. The SOP type is based on production standards. Things like pinched and squirrel tails indicate narrow hindquarters, indicative of potential for fewer/smaller eggs and things like eggbound hens and smaller carcass weight on meat birds. Narrow chests and/or hindquarters indicate a bird without body capacity to be feed efficient for either egg or meat production. It is VERY difficult to breed for both type and egg color at the same time, but I'd go for TYPE first in every case unless egg color is below minimum (#4 on Marans egg color scale). There are characteristics that are less important (not disqualifications) that I may breed forward if conformation is solid and egg color is good...like a pullet that has no copper on her hackles or light shank feathering, etc. JMHO...

(someone needs to create the "shaka" smiley on here...)

 

[Ihilani Coffee]

Well she not old enough to lay yet she's only 3-4 months old but hopefully it's as dark as her moms or darker.

Sometimes the pullets can take 8 months or more to show copper. Wait for an adult molt.

 

[desertmarcy]

Karen, I will send you a PM shortly explaining some of this to you as I think you are very misinformed regarding showing Poultry. Don

Don, I would very much appreciate if you would post that info to the whole thread so we can all learn. I am always interested in what you have to say

 

[DMRippy]

Quote: I don't think I have ever seen Copper improve in a pullet.... don't see a ton of pullets with it but I don't think it has ever gotten better..... strange. Don't think I have seen it improve much in a cockerel either.

I am not saying it can't improve just that I have not seen it.

 

[Ihilani Coffee]

I don't think I have ever seen Copper improve in a pullet.... don't see a ton of pullets with it but I don't think it has ever gotten better..... strange. Don't think I have seen it improve much in a cockerel either.

I am not saying it can't improve just that I have not seen it.

I have seen this many times, but I'm just a beginner at breeding. Some of the cockerels from these lines don't get enough color (like no saddle coppering). So it seems to be a slow coppering situation. Maybe the cockerels would have gotten more color later on but they are in the freezer now. Gotta draw the line somewhere!

 

[desertmarcy]

I posted this cockerel before, and there was a question about if he is roach backed. I am not sure. Feeling his back it does feel rounded from side to side, but there is not a hump or anything from neck to tail. I have taken quite a few pictures in different positions and lighting. These are all the same bird, hatched in Jan so almost 5 months old. Opinions please!

Mary, I like him except for the excess breast color, but if Don is right that using one like that will give you better color on your females, and your hens are lacking in that, then maybe try him over a few of your hens and just keep the pullets out of those matings. But pick the ones that have the least toe feathering, since it looks like he has at least one middle toe feather, that should even out if you breed him over hens that are a little sparse. In my experience, if they have this much breast color at a young age, they will develop more as they age. BTW, nice set of photos to show off every aspect of the bird. These are the kinds of photos needed when folks are posting to get opinions.

 

[desertmarcy]

I don't think I have ever seen Copper improve in a pullet.... don't see a ton of pullets with it but I don't think it has ever gotten better..... strange. Don't think I have seen it improve much in a cockerel either.

I am not saying it can't improve just that I have not seen it.

I agree, I have raised up quite a few pullets past their adult molt and the ones with copper showed it early on. If they didn't have it young, they were overmelanized. Same with the cockerels, but strange thing is, the cockerels DO continue to get more breast color as they get older. I can't figure that one out.

 

[maryhysong]

Mary, I do not think he has a roach back, I think his back angle starts off a little low making the back appear high in the middle. if you like him he should produce some nice colored females with him having all the breast color. most of the Males from him would most likely be over colored. His type is what I generally pick. Don

Mary, I like him except for the excess breast color, but if Don is right that using one like that will give you better color on your females, and your hens are lacking in that, then maybe try him over a few of your hens and just keep the pullets out of those matings. But pick the ones that have the least toe feathering, since it looks like he has at least one middle toe feather, that should even out if you breed him over hens that are a little sparse. In my experience, if they have this much breast color at a young age, they will develop more as they age. BTW, nice set of photos to show off every aspect of the bird. These are the kinds of photos needed when folks are posting to get opinions.

thank you Don & Marcy! I was so busy looking at his back I didn't even look at his feet! Most of the males I get are overcolored and have straw hackles,I like him a lot except the extra copper on the chest, but he may be the perfect ticket. Nearly all of my hens & pullets have very sparse leg feathering and are way over melanized. So I will keep him and try him out this fall.

 

[Ihilani Coffee]

I posted this cockerel before, and there was a question about if he is roach backed. I am not sure. Feeling his back it does feel rounded from side to side, but there is not a hump or anything from neck to tail. I have taken quite a few pictures in different positions and lighting. These are all the same bird, hatched in Jan so almost 5 months old. Opinions please!

I like him, a LOT. Exceptional width, nice back angle/tail angle, consistent copper color throughout, very nice balance to this bird. The bit of extra copper on the chest will likely become more prevalent, but still...he's got quite a bit to work with. I'd like to find one as nice in type!