Black Copper Marans discussion thread

[DMRippy]

 

Sorry to tell you, but Chuck, needs to be DINNER.  His legs are yellow and that is a deal breaker for breeding.  If any of the other marans you have are related to him you probably should not breed them either.  Yellow legs are recessive and that means he got the genes for yellow skin from BOTH parents and even it the others don't express it they carry it.

Sorry.  They are not properly breed Marans.

Rip, 

The other two Marans I have are unrelated to Cluck.  Can the yellow be bred out?  He's the only rooster I have, lol.  I'll have to run out later and take a closer look at his, and the pullets' legs.  

If you want to work for about 4 generations you might could. Personnally I would get another roo. That roo will pass the genes for yellow skin to 100% of his chick. They will not express it but will pass it on to their chicks and it will be a thorn in your side forever.

 

[Sweetpea3829]

If you want to work for about 4 generations you might could. Personnally I would get another roo. That roo will pass the genes for yellow skin to 100% of his chick. They will not express it but will pass it on to their chicks and it will be a thorn in your side forever.

Thanks Rip! Because this is just a practice line, I'll probably proceed for now with him. I don't have access to another cockerel (finding the ones I already have were difficult enough). After practicing for awhile and learning the ropes of all of this, I'll seek out higher quality birds.

 

[DMRippy]

If you want to work for about 4 generations you might could. Personnally I would get another roo. That roo will pass the genes for yellow skin to 100% of his chick. They will not express it but will pass it on to their chicks and it will be a thorn in your side forever.

Thanks Rip!  Because this is just a practice line, I'll probably proceed for now with him.  I don't have access to another cockerel (finding the ones I already have were difficult enough).  After practicing for awhile and learning the ropes of all of this, I'll seek out higher quality birds.  

Please don't sell any chicks you hatch from him. We have enough issues in Marans without adding more to the mix. I have been in your shoes and it is NOT worth the practice. Where are you.

 

[CristinaB]

Thanks Rip! Because this is just a practice line, I'll probably proceed for now with him. I don't have access to another cockerel (finding the ones I already have were difficult enough). After practicing for awhile and learning the ropes of all of this, I'll seek out higher quality birds.

UGH! The dilemma with raising FBCM is that there are so many bad ones and those that have good ones hold on to them or charge an arm and a leg for them. I hatched out a beautiful rooster, great body type and good coloring that developed side sprig. I am devastated, he will be culled. This means starting over because I refuse to hatch out chicks from him. Why? Because I know this will only continue to degrade the quality of FBCM in the U.S.. If you are going to raise these birds, please consider the culling of the less than desirable specimens. Unless you intend to have a closed flock, never sell or share your chicks and eat your "experiments". Don't add to the frustrations of those that want to bring this breed to the forefront. Egg breeding has destroyed many quality birds in favor of egg color over quality bird, it is a shame.

And those of you on this board that help us newbies to identify the points and issues. Thank you for the education. It has helped me incredibly to learn through pictures what to keep and what to cull. Now if you experts could help us newbies by throwing us a couple chicks or eggs to hatch that have good genes or even point us in the direction of someone selling QUALITY I would be grateful. Nothing I have bought so far has been quality enough to be proud of and none of the breeders in my area seem to care about the quality of the bird. It is all about the egg color around here. So Frustrating!!!

 

[Sweetpea3829]

Please don't sell any chicks you hatch from him. We have enough issues in Marans without adding more to the mix. I have been in your shoes and it is NOT worth the practice. Where are you.

Rip, I'm in the Fingerlakes of upstate NY. About an hour and a half southeast of Rochester and the same distance from Syracuse.

UGH! The dilemma with raising FBCM is that there are so many bad ones and those that have good ones hold on to them or charge an arm and a leg for them. I hatched out a beautiful rooster, great body type and good coloring that developed side sprig. I am devastated, he will be culled. This means starting over because I refuse to hatch out chicks from him. Why? Because I know this will only continue to degrade the quality of FBCM in the U.S.. If you are going to raise these birds, please consider the culling of the less than desirable specimens. Unless you intend to have a closed flock, never sell or share your chicks and eat your "experiments". Don't add to the frustrations of those that want to bring this breed to the forefront. Egg breeding has destroyed many quality birds in favor of egg color over quality bird, it is a shame.

And those of you on this board that help us newbies to identify the points and issues. Thank you for the education. It has helped me incredibly to learn through pictures what to keep and what to cull. Now if you experts could help us newbies by throwing us a couple chicks or eggs to hatch that have good genes or even point us in the direction of someone selling QUALITY I would be grateful. Nothing I have bought so far has been quality enough to be proud of and none of the breeders in my area seem to care about the quality of the bird. It is all about the egg color around here. So Frustrating!!!

Scout's honor, I'm not selling, lol. Even if he was great quality, I had no intentions of selling offspring or hatching eggs from this line because I really have no idea what I'm doing and have a lot to learn. I intend to help improve the breed...some day. But now is not that time for me. I have too much going on with my kiddos and not enough experience in the chicken world to be a serious breeder. Plus, I do not have enough background on either of the two lines that I have. The cockerel comes from a BYCer and I don't know where she got her birds from. And the pullets came from a woman who got them from somebody in Syracuse who supposedly had Bev Davis' line, but I can't confirm that. I know she did say she had expected darker eggs, though I don't know how dark her hens were putting out. Cluck hatched from a nicely dark egg.

I'm just practicing and all culls/offspring/eggs are for our own family's personal use. Consider it homework.

When I AM ready, I'll seek out higher quality birds. By then, I should have enough practice and knowledge to be an asset to the breed, instead of contributing to the issues the breed has had.


That said...I went out and took a closer look at Cluck's legs and he does have some yellow bleeding through. They look like a mix of the slate and yellow. I forgot to take a look at the underside of his feet...what color should those be?

The pullets have nice slate on their legs. Again, they are unrelated to the Cockerel. I'm assuming all offspring will have the slate color, as the yellow is recessive? Over a number of generations, I should be able to eliminate that recessiveness completely? If I understand my genetics correctly, I will breed Cluck with his two hens...all chicks should have slate legs. From there, can I breed siblings? Pick the best cockerel from the offspring and breed back to the non-parent older hen?


Anyways, much thanks, guys for all of your patience with me! And helpful advice!

 

[DMRippy]

Keep in mind if you get any chicks from him and the unrelated pullets that have yellow legs too.....that means your pullets carry it too.

The bottom of the feet should be white.....his will be yellow. The yellow and slate kinda make the legs look green.

 

[Sweetpea3829]

Keep in mind if you get any chicks from him and the unrelated pullets that have yellow legs too.....that means your pullets carry it too.

The bottom of the feet should be white.....his will be yellow. The yellow and slate kinda make the legs look green.

Yeah, that would be a real kick. When does the yellow start showing? If I remember, Cluck's legs were pretty black when he was hatched. I have a picture somewhere, because I was showing the feathering to the BYCer I got him from.

 

[One Chick Two]

UGH! The dilemma with raising FBCM is that there are so many bad ones and those that have good ones hold on to them or charge an arm and a leg for them. I hatched out a beautiful rooster, great body type and good coloring that developed side sprig. I am devastated, he will be culled. This means starting over because I refuse to hatch out chicks from him. Why? Because I know this will only continue to degrade the quality of FBCM in the U.S.. If you are going to raise these birds, please consider the culling of the less than desirable specimens. Unless you intend to have a closed flock, never sell or share your chicks and eat your "experiments". Don't add to the frustrations of those that want to bring this breed to the forefront. Egg breeding has destroyed many quality birds in favor of egg color over quality bird, it is a shame.

And those of you on this board that help us newbies to identify the points and issues. Thank you for the education. It has helped me incredibly to learn through pictures what to keep and what to cull. Now if you experts could help us newbies by throwing us a couple chicks or eggs to hatch that have good genes or even point us in the direction of someone selling QUALITY I would be grateful. Nothing I have bought so far has been quality enough to be proud of and none of the breeders in my area seem to care about the quality of the bird. It is all about the egg color around here. So Frustrating!!!

You are SOOO spot on right! Can relate with this. It's been an expensive hobby, often frustrating.

Even with breeders who seem to care, sometimes bird quality is just not near what's reported. Many sellers are just not test mating their stock before selling adult stock, eggs or chicks, or have issues creeping up they haven't monitored, or plain ignore signs, such as inbreeding.

At a Poultry show some months ago, we purchased from a professional breeder, 4 FBCM (3 later from the same breeder later as we had to exchange one bird) as breeders. Paid top dollar, believing we were receiving quality BCM breeders. (Also had roundworm.)

One cockerel later tested Wheaten when we tested them (as I've posted perviously). We had to purchase another grown male (he tested fine.). One hen is Mossy (now also suspected Wheaten, and will be tested soon.) A different hen is believed to be EB, after seeing her signs, and her chicks.

There have been other issues with the other hens as well- such as one big, bossy lead hen not allowing the rooster to mount. Probably why the breeder sold her. He tries, but she craftily knocks him off every chance she gets, so we've only had 5 chicks from her. lol Those chicks look nice at least.

Realizing there's issues, we purchased some nice-looking BCM hatching eggs from Ebay (hoping for hens). So we hatched. A Wheaten (Or Recessive white) popped out.

But only then the seller remembered she'd used a Wheaten male generations ago, and said she believed it'd been bred out by now. The chicks were re-homed. Will be olive eggers. Yep, left feedback. Other people need to know what they are purchasing.

So then we purchased some other, more expensive eggs from a reputable, top breeder. 2 of the 6 chicks hatched from 12 eggs are missing partial toes, plus toenails. The third chick has a double toenail.


One chick is half the size of the others, another's Mossy. There's one chick to keep from 12 possible eggs, and the chick hasn't even neared coloring in yet. lol. But, seeing as 3 chicks from 12 have genetic issues-- missing body parts…just don't think maybe it's the best idea possibly to pair up with this line. Mossy- is an expected fault for culling. Missing toes... not good.

So, we purchased more eggs from a recommended source, a well-tested line of 10 years. The chicks are lovely. Consistent. Chubby. Healthy, very nice! But, not sure what's happening now (never seen this before…) but some of the chicks are developing odd wing feathers sticking out:



I don't believe this is being overly picky- totally understand that there are flaws and faults with BCM, and that shipping eggs are a gamble… but many of these things mentioned have been genetic mutations, or gene dealbreakers that should be culled or mentioned right up front.

Those honest sellers who honestly tell you when you ask what they are working on, are worth their weight in gold!!! At least you would know if you will be doubling up on faults if you have an existing line.

 

[alibra]

My broody black copper Maran just hatched one of her eggs! A cute little black chick!...but.... The only rooster around is a splash laced red Wyandotte? Isn't the chick supposed to be blue?

 

[GaryDean26]

UGH! The dilemma with raising FBCM is that there are so many bad ones and those that have good ones hold on to them or charge an arm and a leg for them.

Now if you experts could help us newbies by throwing us a couple chicks or eggs to hatch that have good genes or even point us in the direction of someone selling QUALITY I would be grateful.

The "Experts" never seem to be phased by the QUALITY they get from other flocks. They know what they are looking for so they are able to avoid faults in stock they bring in to some degree, but they are happy to cull 9 birds if they can get 1 bird that they can use. The 1 bird they can use doesn't have to be perfect either. Just good enough to get them one more bird that they can use the following year out of a group of 10-15.

When I see a nice breeding flock of 7-8 birds I know that the breeder has probably culled 100 birds to put that all-star group together. Pay the arm and a leg to get good stock if you can find it. The best breeders don't sell a lot of stock and have probably invested 2-3 times more on their flock than what they make back from sales.

The best breeders don't sell much because if they have enough birds to produce more stock than what they need for their own breeding program they figure they should have culled more than they did. They focus on QUALITY and not quantity. Anyone that has enough birds to sell and make money on the breed is probably keeping more birds than they should to get the best results possible.

So...you will likely be starting with average to good birds. If you start with average quality birds hatch a lot. Hatching from average quality you are likely to see one good bird for ever 10-15 you grow out. If you start with good stock(or build a good quality flock from a start of average quality) hatch as many as you can. You are likely to seen an excellent one for every 10-15 that you hatch from good quality birds. Once you have 7-8 excellent birds you will have the all-star breeding flock that you are looking for and will be able to work on improving the breed going forward.