Black Copper Marans discussion thread

[Hens and Roos]

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Trying to catch up on this thread but wanted to say VC this is a FASCINATING point of interest!!!!!!!

Eliminating the black stripe I feel would cause more issues than we think....I believe that this may be one of the factors with "overly red" birds...I believe the "stripe" is a key factor tied to melanizers....don't ask me why or how I come up with that....it's just my thoughts...but I must go back and read the other posts on this and catch up with the rest of you.

I have been reading this all along and I know that pictures were posted a few pages or so back but I can't seem to pick out the "black stripe" that everyone is talking about-

might be how it comes through on my lap top...

 

[math ace]

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And I am at the other end of the decesion. . . I would use the guy with too high of a tail OVER the guy with too narrow of a stance. Too high of a tail is a "LOOKS" issue wherease too narrow of body is a structure issue that could effect the girl offsprings laying ability and Produce birds with bad legs ( too close together to support their weight).

NOW keep in mind that I am the NEW KID on the block - - - and Wynette has been doing this much longer than me. . ..

Does anyone have a bird with a nice long back AND a squirreltail? What I have read here and elsewhere is that squirreltail is an indicator of a short back, which is more than just a looks issue... or is it just that the squirreltail makes the back look shorter, but the skeleton underneath is really the same?

Ok - - I'll buy that, BUT it is an easy fix with a long back hen. I know this for fact since my roo is short back and most of the offspring have had average to long backs.

HOWEVER - - - Legs too close together AND narrow body . . . .Well, the hen to fix that is a lot harder to find

ONCE again, JMO.

 

[pinkchick]

Give me a minute Hens and I will find you a photo of the "stripe."

 

[math ace]

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I have also read in various places that temp affects combsize, and that good breeders can tell the season in which your roo was hatched based on combsize. Warmer=bigger. Maybe warmer also = earlier.

That may be the case - - - but the pics of the birds that everyone is by the stunned comb size - - - They were hatched when temps were low ( 30s for us).
So, I don't think they would fall into the warmer temps catergory.

Not agruing VC . . . . I just like more science or proof behind casual observations

NOW I have heard those RAISED in warmer areas develop bigger combs to deal with the heat. In that case, I would fall in that catergory as would any bird received directly from Bev Davis or GFF.

 

[pinkchick]

Not the best photo for the stripe as this was a photo intended to show white in the hackles but it does show the stripe. See the black stripe in the hackle feathers on this cockerel...well they should have this striping in both the hackle and the saddles. Pullets will only have it in the hackle but if memory serves me correctly the hens hackles are reversed in the color with the dark black on the outer edge of the feather and the copper being in the center. EDITED to ADD: Please excuse me for saying that the hackle on the females is reversed....it is not. I was just having a moment.

Tell me if you can see the pullets hackles clearly enough to show the difference in the male and female. I can't tell on my screen.

 

[Hens and Roos]

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Thanks for the pictures Pink, I see the stripe on the crockeral but can't tell on the girl.

 

[pinkchick]

Your welcome Hens! I can try and get a new photo of the one of the girls and her hackles.....I know they are different than the boys'. Be right back....going to go get the girls up right now for a morning photo shoot. They will love me for sure!

 

[Wynette]

Quote:
And I am at the other end of the decesion. . . I would use the guy with too high of a tail OVER the guy with too narrow of a stance. Too high of a tail is a "LOOKS" issue wherease too narrow of body is a structure issue that could effect the girl offsprings laying ability and Produce birds with bad legs ( too close together to support their weight).

NOW keep in mind that I am the NEW KID on the block - - - and Wynette has been doing this much longer than me. . ..

Does anyone have a bird with a nice long back AND a squirreltail? What I have read here and elsewhere is that squirreltail is an indicator of a short back, which is more than just a looks issue... or is it just that the squirreltail makes the back look shorter, but the skeleton underneath is really the same?

Math, for SURE I'm with you...sorry, I am just not looking very closely at pics and haven't posted in this thread in awhile...things going on in my personal life just ovewhelming me a bit. You are most definitely correct, IMO - it's that basic saying that always go back to - build the barn first, then paint it. All OTHER things being equal, to me, squirrel tail is almost offensive. I know that's a strong word, but it personally drives me nuts. However, I would personally choose a squirrel tailed male on a bird with more substance over a nice tail on a lighter bird.

VC, that's a good question, I would think that squirrel tail would make a bird with a mid-length back "appear" to be more short-backed - that makes sense to me.

On your question of the striped hackle, and breeding to a solid colored hackle - I know I'm late to the discussion, so my apologies in advance. all of my cockerels have the strip (well, all that I am currently or will be using). However, does the SOP state that there should be a stripe in the hackle feather? I am not on my computer that I have the SOP saved on. I am unsure if we can actually "remove" the striped hackle and "replace" it with a solid one genetically, but I feel like we could likely "cover" the striped hackle with a solid one. Geebsie has some done some good research into "gene stacking" and has a good bunch of info. in her head & I think written down on stacking and has theories on how it works...it's very interesting to me, and uncovering those layers one by one would be SO beneficial to future breedings!

 

[pinkchick]

Hens~

Here are couple more photos of some girls' hackles...(the hackles in front of the BCM are Bill's hackles...don't know if you can see the striping in his very well....he always has to be in the way. Big ham.

)

She lays an absolutely...positively....stupid colored egg. Most days it is identical to a Barred Rock egg...other days it resembles a light Welsummer egg....when she started laying she laid one of the darkest Marans eggs I was getting at the time, since then...nothing worth keeping or saving at all. Rather disappointed in her and she will be going into the laying flock this weekend with one of her other sisters who lays a light milk chocolatey egg. On a good note... if she didn't have dark eyes and laid a nice egg......she would be the best specimen of a Black Copper hen that I have.

This is one of her sisters in the breeding pen and is the 3rd to best BCM that I have in regards to amount of copper, type and egg color, etc.
Sorry she is all scrunched up but I had her tucked under my arm and was trying to do the one handed camera thing.

As I was taking photos Gnarles won himself the opportunity to be my best friend today because he attacked my boot when I opened the coop door. You can see his punishment photos over in the Marans thread. Sometimes they can be SOOOOOOOOOOO DUMB!

 

[snowbird]

Here is a Wade Jean male that seems to have a shorter back and he has way too much sickle going on for my taste. This seems to be what the judge is picking at present.

Also the BC female hackle with black will be just like the male. I have to say one thing here and that is the black stripe should not be real wide. It should be narrow and at least on the bottom half of the feather. It could be if it is real wide that it would effect the amount that shows up on the female. Don