Black Copper Marans discussion thread

[Wynette]

Keara, you really need to stop posting pictures of this male.

 

[Keara]

Keara, you really need to stop posting pictures of this male.

will do! But I guess I wanted folks to see evolution - to better - over time with selection is possible.

 

[Wynette]

Awe...I was just teasing you. Sorry if I upset you!

The only thing that made me raise my eyebrows a bit is that since these are all sons of the same original cock bird, and you're now seeing yellow feet, how can you be sure it didn't come from the male? Tell us more about your test mating in this regard!!

 

[aceschix]

Quote: You can see the progression is your photos. You are moving ahead for sure.

Even though I think Wynette is concerned because she is cleaning up drool

each time you post him here

 

[Keara]

Awe...I was just teasing you. Sorry if I upset you!

The only thing that made me raise my eyebrows a bit is that since these are all sons of the same original cock bird, and you're now seeing yellow feet, how can you be sure it didn't come from the male? Tell us more about your test mating in this regard!!

PS I am not upset... I need to use more smily faces.

... I'm just teasing you!

Mathace gave me great advice on the yellow foot test mating. It is a rececive trait (not sex linked), that means it needs two copies to express. After a few years of hatching I have started to have chicks pop up with yellow feet. So since none of my originals had visible yellow feet, my previous rooster (frodoson) and at least one hen carry the trait. I got rid of Frodoson, since I know he has it, replaced him with my best next rooster. This coming breeding season I will test mate my new rooster with a yellow footed hen (silver laced wyndotte) and if any of the chicks have yellow feet than I know my rooster has a copy of the gene. If none of the chicks has yellow feet than I know he is clear of the recesive trait. Once I know I have a BCM rooster without yellow foot recesive than..... I will get a yellow footed rooster and start individually test mating my best BCM hens to see who among them may be carring the trait.

Hope you find that clearer than the mud I made of it!

-Keara

 

[Wynette]

Okay, so how do you know that Frodo wasn't recessive for it? He almost HAS to have been, yes?

aceschix - you are absolutely correct!

 

[DMRippy]

Okay, so how do you know that Frodo wasn't recessive for it? He almost HAS to have been, yes?

aceschix - you are absolutely correct!

If I read that correctly, Frodo WAS recessive for it because she was getting yellow legs with him and one of her hens. I was not quite clear about Frodoson if she tested him or just used him. This roo is the 3rd gen away from Frodo and she is going to test him to see if he is recessive for yellow legs AND then she is going to test the hens. Single matings I would guess.

 

[aceschix]

Okay, so how do you know that Frodo wasn't recessive for it? He almost HAS to have been, yes?

aceschix - you are absolutely correct!

 

[Wynette]

If I read that correctly, Frodo WAS recessive for it because she was getting yellow legs with him and one of her hens. I was not quite clear about Frodoson if she tested him or just used him. This roo is the 3rd gen away from Frodo and she is going to test him to see if he is recessive for yellow legs AND then she is going to test the hens. Single matings I would guess.

But my point is, will it ever be completely gone? I'm new with genetics, have a ton of reading to do, but - if something is recessive, isn't it always there, lurking? Or, can you ever be rid of it completely? If you rid yourself of half of the equation (if you can figure out which hen or hens are recessive for it), then you are breeding forward with offspring that has just one recessive gene for yellow feet, so it will not show in the phenotype of the bird; however, if you sell hatching eggs to someone who ALSO doens't have the yellow feet phenotypically in their line, or maybe doens't even know they have it as a recessive trait, then they breed their line to this line, do the offspring then display the trait? OR - can you completely get rid of it?

 

[maryhysong]

But my point is, will it ever be completely gone? I'm new with genetics, have a ton of reading to do, but - if something is recessive, isn't it always there, lurking? Or, can you ever be rid of it completely? If you rid yourself of half of the equation (if you can figure out which hen or hens are recessive for it), then you are breeding forward with offspring that has just one recessive gene for yellow feet, so it will not show in the phenotype of the bird; however, if you sell hatching eggs to someone who ALSO doens't have the yellow feet phenotypically in their line, or maybe doens't even know they have it as a recessive trait, then they breed their line to this line, do the offspring then display the trait? OR - can you completely get rid of it?

In order for a recessive trait to show up the offspring must get a copy of the gene from each parent. By breeding the roo to a yellow footed hen, if any of the babies have yellow feet then the roo is carrying the gene for it. If none of the babies have yellow feet (and you hatch a doz or more chicks) then you can be pretty certain the roo is NOT carrying the gene for yellow feet. Then if she does the opposite, breeding each hen in turn to a yellow footed roo she will be able to pin point which hen is carrying the gene. Once that hen or hens are eliminated from the gene pool and the others bred to the roo proven to NOT be a carrier, no future generation should show up with it, because it is now gone from the gene pool.

We do this with rabbits all the time to eliminate bad genetics. Tho sometimes we will mate mothers to son and fathers to daughters in test matings to see where something has come from. Or when we want to see what recessive traits are being carried by another line that we are bringing in. When you breed like that you are basically doubling up the recessive genes and forcing them to show up in the offspring. That way you can see if there are any bad faults being carried in the original buck or doe that are not visible to the eye. It is also a way to double up on good genes that you want to keep strong down the line. Of course in this case you must cull very heavily to eliminate any weak genes.