Black Copper Marans discussion thread

[Keara]

If I read that correctly, Frodo WAS recessive for it because she was getting yellow legs with him and one of her hens. I was not quite clear about Frodoson if she tested him or just used him. This roo is the 3rd gen away from Frodo and she is going to test him to see if he is recessive for yellow legs AND then she is going to test the hens. Single matings I would guess.

So here is how I figure it

lets say O-O is a normal foot color, O-y is a carrier for yellow but looks normal, and y-y is a yellow footed bird. (remember one gene is from the rooster and one from the hen, as y is recessive it needs two copies, y-y, to express itself)

My first rooster Frodo was not a carrier, O-O, for the yellow foot gene. At least one of the hens I got with him must have had one copy of y but her feet looked normal, so she was O-y. I guess Frodo was O-O because none of my chicks from him (over 2 yrs) ever had yellow feet. (of course I must conceded that it could be he was a carrier and none of the original hens were, thou statistically less likely).

So after breeding Frodo O-O to a hen O-y I ended up with chicks that were half O-y and half O-O. None actually had visually yellow feet, so at this point I did not know I had a problem. Frodoson must have been one of the 1/2 of chicks who was O-y, because when I started to hatch chicks from his breeding (with his O-y aunts and O-y sisters) I started to see about 1/4 of my chicks with yellow feet y-y.

I am not often good with explaining but hope this helps.

-Keara

 

[Keara]

In order for a recessive trait to show up the offspring must get a copy of the gene from each parent. By breeding the roo to a yellow footed hen, if any of the babies have yellow feet then the roo is carrying the gene for it. If none of the babies have yellow feet (and you hatch a doz or more chicks) then you can be pretty certain the roo is NOT carrying the gene for yellow feet. Then if she does the opposite, breeding each hen in turn to a yellow footed roo she will be able to pin point which hen is carrying the gene. Once that hen or hens are eliminated from the gene pool and the others bred to the roo proven to NOT be a carrier, no future generation should show up with it, because it is now gone from the gene pool.

We do this with rabbits all the time to eliminate bad genetics. Tho sometimes we will mate mothers to son and fathers to daughters in test matings to see where something has come from. Or when we want to see what recessive traits are being carried by another line that we are bringing in. When you breed like that you are basically doubling up the recessive genes and forcing them to show up in the offspring. That way you can see if there are any bad faults being carried in the original buck or doe that are not visible to the eye. It is also a way to double up on good genes that you want to keep strong down the line. Of course in this case you must cull very heavily to eliminate any weak genes.

RIght on, well writen!

 

[Wynette]

ah.....yes. It's sinking in now. I'm SUCH a visual learner - I'm trying to visualize, literally, a chicken with regular feet but a recessive yellow foot gene. I think I understand now!

 

[Keara]

ah.....yes. It's sinking in now. I'm SUCH a visual learner - I'm trying to visualize, literally, a chicken with regular feet but a recessive yellow foot gene. I think I understand now!

thanks Wynette for sticking with me on this it is worth understanding.

I actually know a bit about genetics (I work in medical research and it's hard to avoid the subject) so.....

..... assuming that this yellow foot is a simple recessive trait as I have been told

..... and assuming there is no dilution or, sex linking of this gene

......... I promise you I am the woman to breed it out of my BCM birds... and I will not knowingly pass a BCM carrier for the yellow foot on to anyone!

They are good looking birds and worth the effort for this seemingly simple (though time consuming) issue. I will be eating lots of test chickens next summer!

 

[aceschix]

Quote:

I learned a bit from this as well. Thanks ladies!

 

[maryhysong]

ah.....yes. It's sinking in now. I'm SUCH a visual learner - I'm trying to visualize, literally, a chicken with regular feet but a recessive yellow foot gene. I think I understand now!

If it helps maybe think of wearing yellow socks under your boots. If you only have one yellow sock (that you got from one of your parents) you keep your black boots on. But when you have two yellow socks ( cuz you have one from each of your parents) you take your black boots off and everyone can now see your yellow socks. I know it sounds pretty silly to some, but does it help give you the picture?

And of course if both of your parents gave you black socks it wouldn't make any difference if you took your boots off or not; you would still have black feet ....(or slate or whatever the SOP says)

 

[Wynette]

If it helps maybe think of wearing yellow socks under your boots. If you only have one yellow sock (that you got from one of your parents) you keep your black boots on. But when you have two yellow socks ( cuz you have one from each of your parents) you take your black boots off and everyone can now see your yellow socks. I know it sounds pretty silly to some, but does it help give you the picture?

And of course if both of your parents gave you black socks it wouldn't make any difference if you took your boots off or not; you would still have black feet ....(or slate or whatever the SOP says)

Yup - love it! Thanks!

 

[lonnyandrinda]

Well my newest little FBCM that hatched October 12 are sure getting big, got 12 eggs in the mail and 4 hatched. It looks like I maybe ended up with two pairs, we will see. One I have had pegged as a rooster since 2 weeks. But just yesterday I was able to take a good look and have my suspicions on the other 3! Will try to get pictures later!

 

[Keara]

Well my newest little FBCM that hatched October 12 are sure getting big, got 12 eggs in the mail and 4 hatched. It looks like I maybe ended up with two pairs, we will see. One I have had pegged as a rooster since 2 weeks. But just yesterday I was able to take a good look and have my suspicions on the other 3! Will try to get pictures later!

yes baby pictures please!

 

[VillageChicken]

Hey Wynette,
I can see how there might be misunderstandings from the progression of posts on yellow skin.
The term "recessive for" in most of the posts should read "heterozygous for".

Heterozygous recessive means the gene is hiding.

If it is test mated to prove that a particular bird is not heterozygous for recessive yellow skin (it would be W+/W+ or homozygous white skin) then that particular birds offspring will not get yellow skin genes. Heterozygous recessive is (W+/w) - these are the sneaky ones that hide the gene and pass it on. The offspring that show yellow skin are w/w, or homozygous recessive.