Black Copper Marans discussion thread

[BarnGoddess01]

Hey Wynette,
I can see how there might be misunderstandings from the progression of posts on yellow skin.
The term "recessive for" in most of the posts should read "heterozygous for".

Heterozygous recessive means the gene is hiding.

If it is test mated to prove that a particular bird is not heterozygous for recessive yellow skin (it would be W+/W+ or homozygous white skin) then that particular birds offspring will not get yellow skin genes. Heterozygous recessive is (W+/w) - these are the sneaky ones that hide the gene and pass it on. The offspring that show yellow skin are w/w, or homozygous recessive.

Ok ... now I'm completely confused!

 

[Wynette]

Roger, thanks, as always, for your explanation. It sounds like I REALLY need to get reading and at the bare minimum, use the proper words so folks understand what I am asking! You once recommended (I think it was you) to me to pick up a high school biology textbook and read the chapters on genetics - that the language is the same across all genetics discussions. I finally HAVE gotten that textbook, and I have no excuse now!

 

[Wynette]

Ok ... now I'm completely confused!

Geesh, it's crystal clear to ME.

 

[ashandvine]

......... I promise you I am the woman to breed it out of my BCM birds... and I will not knowingly pass a BCM carrier for the yellow foot on to anyone!

They are good looking birds and worth the effort for this seemingly simple (though time consuming) issue. I will be eating lots of test chickens next summer!

I just wanted to say how much I respect this and appreciate this sentiment and the work going into it. I recently went to a woman's home who had hatched out 'pure marans' from 'big name breeders' and she says she spent a lot of money on these dark eggs. I walked into her very nice set up and looked at her birds and was surprised by how many had dq like black eyes or clean shanks and one had a thumbprint comb. I only saw a few with straw hackles or the variegated one that goes from a nice mahogany to straw. I saw a few with light feet/legs and some that were melanized. The melanized I didn't mind at all but she did because she is new to the breed and didn't know this could happen so she thought they weren't pure fcbm. She spent a lot of money on something she didn't know much about and while I spent 10$ on a pullet and grabbed a few free cockerels (pics next week when I have time) I have been thinking a lot about what socks might be in their boots. (great analogy btw)
I plan to start where I am and get better as I can... but if they have yellow socks what do you think their underwear look like?

 

[Keara]

I just wanted to say how much I respect this and appreciate this sentiment and the work going into it. I recently went to a woman's home who had hatched out 'pure marans' from 'big name breeders' and she says she spent a lot of money on these dark eggs. I walked into her very nice set up and looked at her birds and was surprised by how many had dq like black eyes or clean shanks and one had a thumbprint comb. I only saw a few with straw hackles or the variegated one that goes from a nice mahogany to straw. I saw a few with light feet/legs and some that were melanized. The melanized I didn't mind at all but she did because she is new to the breed and didn't know this could happen so she thought they weren't pure fcbm. She spent a lot of money on something she didn't know much about and while I spent 10$ on a pullet and grabbed a few free cockerels (pics next week when I have time) I have been thinking a lot about what socks might be in their boots. (great analogy btw)
I plan to start where I am and get better as I can... but if they have yellow socks what do you think their underwear look like?

THanks for the vote of confidence

but remember ...... Just because I get a few nice birds does not mean I do not get my fair share of things like, yellow feet

, squirrel tail, dark eyes, too much copper in the chest, feathered middle toe, too many comb points and a chick with fused toes from time to time. It will be a long slow process to getting birds that breed consistant type and I bet you right now no one is. I have used birds with poor leg feather, and dark eyes in my breeding... but only if I like everything else about them.

I try to be very clear about what is wrong with my birds, but also want folks to see how nice they can look if you are both careful in breeding and Very very lucky !

 

[ashandvine]

Well I like even more now. Awesome. I was in the barn looking at the birds tonight and trying to figure it out. There are two bcm cockerels down there who I am debating using. The biggest (which I prefer as a trait) has light legs. They aren't yellow, they are pale pale grey, almost white. Its weird. He also has a bit more straw color in his hackle than the other. The one with better feathering on his legs, slate legs, is mahogany and I noticed that his color patterns are more clean/evenly lined. I suppose this seems like a hit out of the park but I think one had a funky comb too. Can't be sure. Pics for me and you will be better. Anyway, its good to know how to go forward and be reminded that they are edible mistakes

 

[DMRippy]

The faults and DQ you are going to find in any breed. I see the same ones in my Rocks, Wyandottes and Ameraucanas that I see in Marans. They are just COMMON in chickens and you have to KNOW what not to breed so you can pick your battles. You can deal with some things but you have to CULL VERY HARD if you breed it. Like Keara did with the yellow legs. Some things I just would not want to tackle like white feathers and yellow legs. I have enough to deal with without KNOWINGLY adding more issues. I will not add any new blood without checking for some things. Like yellow legs. I would test breed any new blood to make sure they don't carry yellow legs.

 

[Keara]

Well I like even more now. Awesome. I was in the barn looking at the birds tonight and trying to figure it out. There are two bcm cockerels down there who I am debating using. The biggest (which I prefer as a trait) has light legs. They aren't yellow, they are pale pale grey, almost white. Its weird. He also has a bit more straw color in his hackle than the other. The one with better feathering on his legs, slate legs, is mahogany and I noticed that his color patterns are more clean/evenly lined. I suppose this seems like a hit out of the park but I think one had a funky comb too. Can't be sure. Pics for me and you will be better. Anyway, its good to know how to go forward and be reminded that they are edible mistakes

Personally....I would let your cockerels grow to see what they end up with for body type. If the funky comb has side sprig type issues get rid of him no matter body type. I personally also cull for white undercoat feathering. I've had male birds with both light and dark legs like you mention, the darker legged females have given me more chicks with darker legs.

Pictures are always good!

 

[Keara]

Hey Wynette,
I can see how there might be misunderstandings from the progression of posts on yellow skin.
The term "recessive for" in most of the posts should read "heterozygous for".

Heterozygous recessive means the gene is hiding.

If it is test mated to prove that a particular bird is not heterozygous for recessive yellow skin (it would be W+/W+ or homozygous white skin) then that particular birds offspring will not get yellow skin genes. Heterozygous recessive is (W+/w) - these are the sneaky ones that hide the gene and pass it on. The offspring that show yellow skin are w/w, or homozygous recessive.

 

[BrendaJ]

6 mo old BCM hens i added to my flock.