Black Copper Marans discussion thread

[lonnyandrinda]

OK what are your opinions here, I am thinking two boys and two girls? Exactly four weeks old today. These poor things are at the velociraptor stage, more ugly than cute! Ignore the occasional Ameraucana sneaking into the picture.
Boy number one- this one has screamed, "BOY!" since 2 weeks old. I would not be surprised if he started crowing tomorrow- if chickens could ooze testosterone this one would!




Boy number two: fairly certain this is a boy. Somehow I only managed to get one photo of him? Not sure how that happened! Will he grow out of the black spots on his comb?


Now the girls. One is for sure girl to me (front in the first picture, only one in second picture, front in the third picture), the other I'm not sure about? The second one is much more shy I couldn't get it to come out for photos!

 

[Keara]

OK what are your opinions here, I am thinking two boys and two girls? Exactly four weeks old today. These poor things are at the velociraptor stage, more ugly than cute! Ignore the occasional Ameraucana sneaking into the picture.
Boy number one- this one has screamed, "BOY!" since 2 weeks old. I would not be surprised if he started crowing tomorrow- if chickens could ooze testosterone this one would!




Boy number two: fairly certain this is a boy. Somehow I only managed to get one photo of him? Not sure how that happened! Will he grow out of the black spots on his comb?


Now the girls. One is for sure girl to me (front in the first picture, only one in second picture, front in the third picture), the other I'm not sure about? The second one is much more shy I couldn't get it to come out for photos!

I am in agreement about the sexes.

I love this awkward stage they are so funny; and full of potential. I love the look on the face of that last pullet, she is very serious. I think she will raise lots of babies for you.
I see no mossy which is good and I like the eye on both roos. Can't wait to see them grow up. If you can handle it let those boys go to at least 25wks before you decide. Unless you see something obvious.

 

[maryhysong]

while I spent 10$ on a pullet and grabbed a few free cockerels (pics next week when I have time) I have been thinking a lot about what socks might be in their boots. (great analogy btw)
I plan to start where I am and get better as I can... but if they have yellow socks what do you think their underwear look like?

Thanks; being one of those geeky sort of bookworms with a large vocabulary, living in very small uneducated redneck towns I have learned that I need to break some things down for people. Also I work with people that tend to be visual learners and and have a child and grandchild with learning disabilities. I am always having to find different ways of explaining things to help people get the right picture in their heads. We are all different in how we learn and remember things. Reading directions and being able to follow them is usually very easy for me, but I have learned that not everyone can do that the way I can.

Anyway, I am not well versed in specific chicken genetics to say what their underwear might be like (assuming you are referring to white fluff). Perhaps someone that knows more about the specific genetics can chime in here; I am wondering if the white fluff and white feathers are a dominate trait (that would be something that only needs one gene for it to show up). In that case I would be very hesitant to use a bird that had these for breeding.

 

[lonnyandrinda]

I am in agreement about the sexes.

I love this awkward stage they are so funny; and full of potential. I love the look on the face of that last pullet, she is very serious. I think she will raise lots of babies for you.
I see no mossy which is good and I like the eye on both roos. Can't wait to see them grow up. If you can handle it let those boys go to at least 25wks before you decide. Unless you see something obvious.

Thank you I appreciate your taking the time to give me your opinion. I don't have a lot of experience with this breed yet. I have one decent pair of FBCM no where near as nice as yours though, my rooster is much better than my girl (she has a little mossiness and very dark eyes). These particular chicks were from ebay, parents looked nice but you know how that goes. So we will see! I heard Skillet (the big boy I've always known was a boy) try to crow today!!!!!! Just a cute little squeak! Amazing they can crow at FOUR WEEKS!

Rinda

 

[Africanchild]

I'm new to the breed but is this too much copper?

 

[Arielle]

Quote: Nice job explaining!

Quote: Keara-- this makes sense. I had an issue stay hidden for 15 years in a flock of sheep; only when the two recessives lined up did the problem reveal it self. It was a heterozygous recessive, just based on the way it revealed itself.

Quote:

I'm a visual learner and this was just too funny and graphic to not get it.

Hey Wynette,
I can see how there might be misunderstandings from the progression of posts on yellow skin.
The term "recessive for" in most of the posts should read "heterozygous for".

Heterozygous recessive means the gene is hiding.

If it is test mated to prove that a particular bird is not heterozygous for recessive yellow skin (it would be W+/W+ or homozygous white skin) then that particular birds offspring will not get yellow skin genes. Heterozygous recessive is (W+/w) - these are the sneaky ones that hide the gene and pass it on. The offspring that show yellow skin are w/w, or homozygous recessive.

Thanks for the technical details.

Roger, thanks, as always, for your explanation. It sounds like I REALLY need to get reading and at the bare minimum, use the proper words so folks understand what I am asking! You once recommended (I think it was you) to me to pick up a high school biology textbook and read the chapters on genetics - that the language is the same across all genetics discussions. I finally HAVE gotten that textbook, and I have no excuse now!

Definitely a great place to start; get the basics Wynettte; these days I reread my college animal genetics book but that is usually beyond what we discuss here. MOre population genetics.

Quote: Do you have all the boys you need? I still have plenty.

Quote: THis is so true!! I get weird and funky things show up in the different breeds I have and the turkeys too. I'm always surprized by the oddities that seem to crop up regularly.

 

[DMRippy]

I'm new to the breed but is this too much copper?

Yes, pullets/hens should only have copper in their hackles.

 

[ashandvine]

I was being funny about the underwear but it works for fluff. I haven't got my hands on them yet and they are so darn skittish the pics I took are horrible. I just got another boy who I like a lot better but I notice this feet soles are pink/red. What the heck??
ARIELLE I totally need a good back up or up front.
Here is the new boy...

poor posture, I know...

legs are not the darkest nor the lightest here... and yes I see the sprigs in there and am ignoring them for now.

his color is a bit darker in person in his hackles but it does appear to fade to straw a bit. Is this a genetic issue? I have two like this now.

I do like his face. The Einstein eyebrows are humorous.
I had to bring him in for photos. Just too cold for my fingers.

Now... I was trying to read about genetics on the breeders site. Something I am not clear on I would invite help to understand; melanized females (the ones where can see almost no copper at all in their hackles) they lay really dark eggs but clearly aren't SOP. Any other reason not to use them as breeders? I have one here who has the best leg feathering for all of them and I like dark eggs.

 

[ashandvine]

Next: the horrible pics of the other boys all nearly 6 mos. These guys are nearly feral so its tough getting pics at all.

Here is a lucky shot of all three. Their tails are nearly non existent at this point. The smallest white legger is in front. The one of the right is the guy I plan to use without other recourse as at least a back up. He is hunching a little but his color is pretty good his legs are the darkest and have the best feathering. The boy on the left IS bigger and dominant but his hackles are clearly straw colored and I don't like that. Low front is the melanized girl. Demure and less feral. Great feathered feet.

Useable boy in middle and otherwise a poor pic for color comparison purposes.

This shows off the dominant boys pale legs and no tail (ha ha). You can also see the gals feathered feet. This is the basement of the barn, where the pens are permanent and reserved for the big comb breeds. It isn't pretty but its stays above freezing all but a few nights of the winter and has water plumbed in for added convenience. My walnut combs are out in the cottage which is cuter but colder. (fyi 200 yo farm house here so working with it as it is as well.)

Oh yes, and these are the ones that were supposed to be out of really great breeder lines. ?? Not sure. I love my birds from DMRipey and Taylor so... maybe bigger isn't always better?

 

[maryhysong]

I just want to say how much I appreciate all the photos and discussions of them. I'm new to BCM, 2 chicks just hatched from shipped eggs and on a wait list for day old chicks. So I am sucking up as much knowledge and information as I can.

I do have a question. My two little chicks look like some of those posted here, cute fluff balls and definitely feathered shanks and outer toes. Their legs are grey (slate? still trying to match up the color words with what I'm actually seeing) but their toes and bottom of feet look yellow. Just wondering if this is right or just a chick thing.I know a lot of things will change as they begin to grow up.

OK another question. I've read here many times to not cull, especially roos until they are at least 6 months because a lot of times the slower growing ones are the better looking birds in the end. But I am sure that there must be some signs of things when they are younger, that will at least hint at which ones will have major faults and which ones will be better? When I raised rex rabbits I found that the ones with best fur, size and conformation at 8 weeks were still the best and biggest when they were older. Now I know that chicken genetics is a lot more complex than rabbits and you are looking at a whole lot more things in a bird than in a rabbit but surely there are some things that are obvious, immediate culls at younger ages?