Black Copper Marans with webbed feet.......

Discussion in 'General breed discussions & FAQ' started by gabby3535, May 18, 2009.

  1. gabby3535

    gabby3535 Songster

    I have a BCM pullet who is 7 weeks old.
    She has a web between the long middle toe and the 'outer' toe, on each foot.
    The web has pulled the tip of her middle toe over toward the outer one, causing a sideways curve of
    the middle toe (pictures below).......

    She has trouble walking/standing/balancing...............................and I believe it is mainly due to the
    fact that the surface area of the spread of her toes is greatly limited. She essentially only has 2 toes, which are
    a short distance from each other, to balance on..................vs 3 spread-out toes, like a normal foot.
    Has anyone ever had success surgically removing the web to allow the toes to move more naturally?

  2. halo

    halo Got The Blues

    Nov 22, 2007
    My Coop
    From what I am reading about marans, and I am simply an interested bystander, I dont own any, but apparently this is only one of a few genetic problems popping up with the BCMs now that they have gotten so popular. And I mean popular in the monetary sense, which is the worst way of all. Any and all birds are being used to produce eggs to sell, so its really turning into a disaster. It will become more and more difficult to find quality birds. To answer your situation, I dont know if it can be fixed. Maybe someone on here more familiar with that can answer.
  3. DarkUnicorn

    DarkUnicorn Songster

    May 12, 2008
    Walden, NY
    Poor baby.....

    I know that webbed feet has been talked about on here somewhere, I think in the emergencies section.....

    It looks like there's enough skin between those toes if your brave, but I'd be worried about he middle toe being curled already.

    Try putting this in the emergency section as well. Then give her a treat from me....
  4. L&Schickens

    L&Schickens Songster

    Jun 9, 2008
    Washington State
    I had several with that problem and knew it would be bad for the birds in the future. I actually cut the webbing between the toes with finger nail scissors (Not clippers) so the chicks could at least walk better in the future at 2 days old. I eventually culled all but one and I believe that one is going to be culled soon too. It is very disappointing to say the least. I now only have 2 Marans pullets left and only one is a black copper. [​IMG]
    Last edited: May 18, 2009
  5. Freckle Face Farm

    Freckle Face Farm Songster

    Jan 1, 2009
    That is soo sad.. [​IMG] Poor bird... [​IMG] I have black coppers and have be fortunate not to have those problems... Wonder what makes that happen?
    Last edited by a moderator: May 18, 2009
  6. blackdotte

    blackdotte Songster

    Nov 18, 2008
    It is an incomplete Dominant genetic fault commonly found on all feather footed breeds. You have it because someone has bred from birds that have the fault. Due to Wall St approach.
    The Market rules, high demand,breed & sell more, make more $$$$, forget ethics
  7. onthespot

    onthespot Deluxe Dozens

    Mar 29, 2008
    Riverside/Norco, CA
    If it was me, I'd just give the skin between the toes a quick snip with a scissors and hit it with some quich stop to stop the bleeding. And don't breed that bird.
  8. sandspoultry

    sandspoultry Everybody loves a Turkey

    Feb 10, 2008
    Eastern NC
    My question is where did you get your stock from to both
    L & S chickens and gabby3535.
    You would not want to use the webbed footed ones as any part
    of your breeding program, they would be culls.
  9. amazondoc

    amazondoc Cracked Egghead

    Mar 31, 2008
    Lebanon, TN
    I've posted this info elsewhere, and here it is again. In summary, toe problems go along with feathered legs -- so it is natural for Marans breeders to be experiencing that sort of problem --

    syndactyly = fused toes
    ptilopody = feathered feet and toes
    brachydactyly = shortened toes

    "Syndactyly is a condition in which the third and fourth toes are fused, usually by continuous webbing between the toes (Figure 6.6). The extent of webbing varies distally and between toes. In extreme cases the toes are tightly tied together, and the nail of the fourth toe may be bent out of its median position making walking difficult. The condition is usually expressed in both feet. Syndactyly has been associated with both ptilopody and brachydactyly by several workers (Davenport, 1909; Danforth, 1919a, 1919b; Jaap, 1939). They proposed that the same gene was responsible for all three of these conditions and that modifying genes and genetic background determine the phenotype of each individual. Davenport's (1909) data showed syndactyly to be dominant. This would be expected if one of the dominant shank feathering genes were responsible for it. Danforth (1929) suggested that both of the dominant shank feathering genes were able to produce syndactyly. A relationship between these two traits was further strengthened with the appearance of the single gene multitrait mutant psp reported by McGibbon and Shackelford (192) and Smyth (1981) in which syndactyly and ptilopody were shown to be caused by the same recessive gene.

    There probably is more than one genetic type of syndactyly. Two studies have been made of this trait in clean-legged stock, where ptilopody genes could not be involved. One study used White Plymouth Rocks (Warren, 1950) and the other one involved junglefowl stock (Hollander and Brumbaugh, 1969). In both cases, results from crosses were difficult to interpret. Warren (1950) found that the normal parent had a major influence on F1 progeny; he got only 1.8 percent syndactylism in one group of F1 crosses but 41 percent in another, syndactyl x syndactyl crosses produced 62 percent affected progeny, and there were only 11.9 percent affected in the F2 generation. The comparable results from Hollander and Brumbaugh (1969) were zero, 40 and one percent affected birds. Although Warren (1950) had somewhat more affected individuals, these two groups may well have been working with the same genetic complex. Hollander and Brumbaugh (1969) proposed complementary gene action of a dominant and a recessive factor along with variable penetrance and expressivity. Warren (1950) did not suggest a mode of inheritance, but said that there was no evidence of sex-linkage."

    pp. 201-202, Poultry Breeding and Genetics -- Roy D. Crawford, Elsevier, 1990.
  10. gabby3535

    gabby3535 Songster

    I don't know why I didn't notice this before now, but in addition to the webbing, the 2 toes share only one toenail.......[​IMG]
    My vet is looking into cutting the web to free up the 2 toes, but now what about the shared toenail?
    Perhaps part of the nail can be cut, short, right at the tip of the toe, and the remainder left on the other toe?
    This does complicate things a bit.......................................
    I hope I can get her help.....................

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