Black crested White Polish

[I Like Turkeys]

I'm not sure what it means, but I read somewhere that ewh-ER may mimic eb-eb down. If so, the width ratio may be different. I think we need to be very observant of these details. I don't think e+ is in BCW but it is different for eb striping. Different genes have a different signature.

If you're suggesting I measure the width of their back stripes, I can do that . Sounds fun.

In all seriousness, I understand. The concept that different genes have slightly varying effects is not new. I mostly struggle with down color. I haven't seen much information on how Co, Db, Ml, or other genes may affect down color, so I honestly can not confidently gauge e-locus on these birds without knowing the effect any other genes they may have would impose.

I'll keep track of down color and adult color though. Best I can do for now.

 

[NatJ]

I mostly struggle with down color. I haven't seen much information on how Co, Db, Ml, or other genes may affect down color, so I honestly can not confidently gauge e-locus on these birds without knowing the effect any other genes they may have would impose.

I'll keep track of down color and adult color though. Best I can do for now.

I will be watching with interest, because I have also wondered about the effects of some of those gene combinations on down color, and how the down color correlates (or doesn't) with adult color.

 

[ElPaso]

If you're suggesting I measure the width of their back stripes, I can do that . Sounds fun.

In all seriousness, I understand. The concept that different genes have slightly varying effects is not new. I mostly struggle with down color. I haven't seen much information on how Co, Db, Ml, or other genes may affect down color, so I honestly can not confidently gauge e-locus on these birds without knowing the effect any other genes they may have would impose.

I'll keep track of down color and adult color though. Best I can do for now.

I'm not saying anyone knows. I'm saying if it is knowable then let's know it. I think Co, Db and Ml surely effect down color. I'm not convinced any of these effect striping except shade or darkness. May even reverse them. Who knows.

 

[I Like Turkeys]

Hey @ElPaso on the topic of down color, what did your BCW polish/buff Orpington crosses look like as chicks? I ask out out of curiosity for what the ewh and other genes of the Buff orpington might’ve affected.

 

[ElPaso]

Hey @ElPaso on the topic of down color, what did your BCW polish/buff Orpington crosses look like as chicks? I ask out out of curiosity for what the ewh and other genes of the Buff orpington might’ve affected.

They were white.

 

[ElPaso]

They were white.

I did some reading. Carefoot published a study that states several observations about the down colors we are talking about. (ER, eb & ewh) And how Co & Db effect them. Simply stated ER-ER and ER-eb look the same, black. Add Db make them dark brown. If ewh is present with either ER or eb the black will be "Restricted" (lighter or smaller in area?). So if a chick has a faint back stripe it may ewh-eb. Co doesn't dilute or color shift like Db does the down color. One thing I haven't emphasized as much is that we need the Db gene not linked to Pg or Ml.

 

[I Like Turkeys]

I did some reading. Carefoot published a study that states several observations about the down colors we are talking about. (ER, eb & ewh) And how Co & Db effect them. Simply stated ER-ER and ER-eb look the same, black. Add Db make them dark brown. If ewh is present with either ER or eb the black will be "Restricted" (lighter or smaller in area?). So if a chick has a faint back stripe it may ewh-eb. Co doesn't dilute or color shift like Db does the down color. One thing I haven't emphasized as much is that we need the Db gene not linked to Pg or Ml.

Awesome! Is there a certain book or website you found this at?


I agree that the Db gene must Not be linked on these birds. Brining in Ml and Pg can mess up the patterning badly. Unfortunately, I’m certain they’re linked in at least a few birds in my flock. 2/3 of my hens show bad patterning I’m decently certain came from those genes.

Just another benefit to your BCW/Buff orpington cross, which was a pretty good choice on your part, I must commend you. When I was originally thinking of outcrosses, I hadn’t considered the ewh gene, Or solid buff birds. Figured I’d go for lakenvelders or silver laced polish, both Of which would have me loosing a few genes I’d need to try to selectively keep going/bring back. Since solid buff birds only have Db, but also Co, bringing them in must help remove Ml and Pg from a flock. I’m curious to do the cross myself, just waiting until I can find buff adults of any breed from an NPIP certified source before I do so.

 

[ElPaso]

Awesome! Is there a certain book or website you found this at?


I agree that the Db gene must Not be linked on these birds. Brining in Ml and Pg can mess up the patterning badly. Unfortunately, I’m certain they’re linked in at least a few birds in my flock. 2/3 of my hens show bad patterning I’m decently certain came from those genes.

Just another benefit to your BCW/Buff orpington cross, which was a pretty good choice on your part, I must commend you. When I was originally thinking of outcrosses, I hadn’t considered the ewh gene, Or solid buff birds. Figured I’d go for lakenvelders or silver laced polish, both Of which would have me loosing a few genes I’d need to try to selectively keep going/bring back. Since solid buff birds only have Db, but also Co, bringing them in must help remove Ml and Pg from a flock. I’m curious to do the cross myself, just waiting until I can find buff adults of any breed from an NPIP certified source before I do so.

Info from .pdf files online.
I also considered buff Minorca. I used orpington bantams because I'm not a fan large chickens. I prefer small breeds. I also crossed with silver laced polish bantams because the BCWs crest are poor.

 

[I Like Turkeys]

An update! All 3 pullets are laying now. About to go on a hatching stall though, until I can separate them to mark eggs properly. Currently working on a coop where I plan to cage train birds, it’ll make a good spot to keep them separate, and I’ll be able to switch them out to their rooster every few days to ensure fertility.

One of my spare cockerels died in a near-24 hour rainstorm 2 nights ago. I’m unsure what happened, he was healthy the night of the storm, but the next day was dead under his roost. There are a lot of variables as to what could’ve happened, but it didn’t look like what I’ve come to expect of predator attacks, so for now I remain unsure on what happened to the poor boy.

3 older chicks who've hatched are all doing well. I can grab photos of them tomorrow Or next week. Crests are beginning to come in on the eldest 2.

I had 5 eggs hatch yesterday. Main reason I’m dropping in is because of this guy. Wow! it’s very cute, honestly.
(Dwight x Wendy chick, 1/10 of their offspring dead and alive to show this color)

I am confident of its heritage.

This hatch had a lot of big vaults, surprisingly. The vault size is really kinda taking me by shock. I am not joking when I say the parents had very tiny to zero vaults as chicks. This chick has the largest vault I’ve ever seen on a chick I’ve hatched. I’ll be watching for signs of loss of vigor, since the first large-vaulted chick died at 5 days old, but right now these guys all seem very healthy, hungry, and investigative. It’s a bit freaky seeing how big the vaults have gotten in a single generation, even though I know the trait is required for the breed.

Dwight x Wendy 2: another dark gray chick with white striping. 2nd I’ve hatched, after the first chick who died, so I’m especially curious to see how it grows.

Dwight x Sonic chicks:

 

[ElPaso]

An update! All 3 pullets are laying now. About to go on a hatching stall though, until I can separate them to mark eggs properly. Currently working on a coop where I plan to cage train birds, it’ll make a good spot to keep them separate, and I’ll be able to switch them out to their rooster every few days to ensure fertility.

One of my spare cockerels died in a near-24 hour rainstorm 2 nights ago. I’m unsure what happened, he was healthy the night of the storm, but the next day was dead under his roost. There are a lot of variables as to what could’ve happened, but it didn’t look like what I’ve come to expect of predator attacks, so for now I remain unsure on what happened to the poor boy.

3 older chicks who've hatched are all doing well. I can grab photos of them tomorrow Or next week. Crests are beginning to come in on the eldest 2.

I had 5 eggs hatch yesterday. Main reason I’m dropping in is because of this guy. Wow! it’s very cute, honestly.
(Dwight x Wendy chick, 1/10 of their offspring dead and alive to show this color)View attachment 3687522View attachment 3687523
I am confident of its heritage.

This hatch had a lot of big vaults, surprisingly. The vault size is really kinda taking me by shock. I am not joking when I say the parents had very tiny to zero vaults as chicks. This chick has the largest vault I’ve ever seen on a chick I’ve hatched. I’ll be watching for signs of loss of vigor, since the first large-vaulted chick died at 5 days old, but right now these guys all seem very healthy, hungry, and investigative. It’s a bit freaky seeing how big the vaults have gotten in a single generation, even though I know the trait is required for the breed.

Dwight x Wendy 2: another dark gray chick with white striping. 2nd I’ve hatched, after the first chick who died, so I’m especially curious to see how it grows.View attachment 3687535

Dwight x Sonic chicks:View attachment 3687533View attachment 3687532View attachment 3687534

I hope you have good luck with your chicks. I remember your concerns about the vault size being correlated to loses. My experience is different. I have never seen more loses from vaulted chicks. The causes of chick mortality are many. My guess is that it is associated with this strain of chickens. When I received my chicks from ideal, they had good vigor. The problem with them is the lack of quality control. Not so much health quality but not being bred to the standard. I usually hatch 2 or 3 dozen at a time. I take care to control the environment carefully. When I notice weak chicks I try to access the situation and act accordingly. However I cull any that are a threat to the others. Sick weak chicks will spread disease. Because the chicks I received from ideal were poorly selected for color and type I crossed them with silver laced polish. So I can't speak to the vigor of what ideal on ideal might be. Yes my cross offspring lost even more color but vigor is good and type is very good. I warn you about following my example because of the commitment. But my birds are healthy and vigorous. Again I wish you good luck. If you find a silver polish that you like you should consider crossing it with one of your best colored birds. Raise a few chicks and see what you think.