Black Orps dieing!!!

[lucidmom]

I am having trouble with my baby black orps. We hatched them from eggs we recieved through the mail. Between 2 seperate batches we have had 6 blacks die. 2 in the shell, one at 2 days old, one in my arms at 4-5 weeks old, the 5th one at 8 weeks old, and the last was 9 weeks.
The first to die was the one in my arms, he was from the first batch of eggs. He was fine all day, then in the evening he started limping. We brought him in, and put him under a light. Didn't eat or drink, just wanted to sleep. He did make a cooing noise, trilling, something new. By the next night he died. No runny nose, no bloody stool, poo seemed normal.
Then one week later, one of the new ones started limping. Right leg forward, but she was very alert. Couldn't get to the feed and water by her self so we held her up. She was isolated, under her own lamp. At the time she was only 3 weeks old. A little runt chick that sat so low to the ground that when she pooped it stuck to her and we had to clean her butt for the first week. She ended up with a bald butt. After a week she was fine. Limping a little but walking and getting stonger every day. Then at 8 weeks she started getting lethargic, didn't want eat or drink. We made up a mesh and I syringe fed her, both water and food, for 3 days. Her poo was watery, white and dark green. She then passed away.
Then just last night, our last black was making the same cooing, trilling noise as the first. I commented to my husband that he was making the same noise as the first and he said maybe its a boy thing. He was fine. Not lethargic at all. Running around and playing, catching bugs in the backyard. This morning he was dead.
From hatching, these babies have been feed medicated feed, we put apple cidar vinegar in their water, and they run free for several hours in the yard. Wandering into the garden (no chemicals are sprayed in the garden, we have cats and children that run in and out of it all day and refuse to take a chance that they could injest anything) and getting all the tomatoes they wanted.
At this point its just the blacks. The buff (whom we bought from the feed store at 2 days old, and she is now 4 1/2 months old) is fine. The blues are great, so are the lavendars. We also have a california white and black sexlink. These 2 we got with the buff. If anybody knows what we might be dealing with, please help. We don't want to lose more. Like most people we thought they were just birds, but quickly found they are our favorite pets. Please help.

 

[Frost Homestead]

Sorry for your losses. I'm gonna ask some basic questions that pop into my mind when I read your post.

How much are you diluting the ACV that you put in their water? Is it okay to give ACV water to healthy chicks? I'm not very familiar with it is why I ask.

You write that they are eating all the tomatoes they want, are they eating the leaves? Tomato leaves are toxic to chickens.

The way their sticking their legs out and limping seems very strange, I wonder if they have splayed legs and struggling to stand is making the little ones weak, but by 9 weeks it should be obvious something is very wrong if they had splayed legs. I wish I could help you more, hopefully this bump will get your post out there where someone with more experience will see it and respond.

 

[galanie]

Sounds like Marek's disease. The reason the rest don't seem to get sick is that they were given a vaccine against it at the hatchery, or they were old enough when exposed to stand up to a slight infection. Next hatch, it would be best to get some of the vaccine for them. They are getting it from the soil. It can't be cured. You can look up Marek's on the web.

 

[seminolewind]

Quote:
The 2 day old and the 5 week old -Marek's would be improbable. The 5 week old, possible, but not likely. Most strains take 2 weeks to develop, and most strains cause symptoms at 8-25 weeks. MOST, not all.

If you hatched all the eggs from the mail, and your property never had chickens before, and your chicks never had contact with chickens outside your property, it's highly unlikely that they have Marek's. If other people have chickens nearby, it could happen if it was a large amount of their dust blew onto your property.

So I can think "no". There are other illnesses that can cause lameless, loss of appetite, and a respiratory issue (trilling?). They can be passed thru an egg. Marek's would not be passed thru an egg. The most important question would be if they had any contact in any way with other chickens or a flock? Otherwise , probably not Marek's.

I'm sorry about your chickens.

 

[ChickensAreSweet]

Are you using metal or plastic waterers? For ACV it is recommended that you not use metal. (You don't have to answer just food for thought!!!)

A cooing or trilling noise made by chicks and chickens is a happy sound. It is the equivalent of a chicken purr. Mine do it almost every day- even grown up.

Have you considered coccidiosis? The prime age for it is up to around 8 weeks of life. No bloody poo necessary for diagnosis.

If it were me, at the first sign of CHICK lethargy, I'd be giving Corid really fast. Especially with them being placed on dirt right away (which is natural). Coccidiosis can be found EVEN when chicks are still in the brooder.

You should see a turnaround in the chicks within 24 hours or so with Corid. Sulmet kills more strains of cocci but is harder on their systems from what I have read. Don't give vitamins when giving Corid.

Classic signs of coccidiosis:
young chickens
lethargic
feathers fluffed up
stands in corner by himself
may or may not have bloody poo
may or may not have been fed medicated feed
won't eat or drink


The limping is the only thing I don't know about. My chicks never limped with coccidiosis, but I did have one that fell on its side and couldn't get up without help. Then when I put it upright it walked around fine. Then it would do it again. It just felt so bad.

What do you mean by right leg forward? Is it laying on the ground with its leg forward? I don't know anything much about Mareks but I was trying to offer another possible diagnosis.

 

[lucidmom]

Thank you all for your replys. I will answer all the questions in order.

To Frosthazard: the chickens were not eating the tomatoe leaves. We pick them and throw them to them. Only the one chick sat with it's right leg forward, she was 2 weeks old, like a Marek's symtom. But she never developed the other symptoms with the other leg or the head. She got better after a week and at 8 weeks went lethargic and refused to eat and died.

To Seminole Wind- we have never had chickens before. We bought the house 4 yrs ago, and there are no signs that the previous owner had chickens. We have not been around anybody elses chickens either. The closest neighbors that have chickens are a good 5 blocks away.

To Chickens are sweet- We are using plastic waterers. We knew nothing about coccidiosis till we looked here at the forum. Is it safe to give healthy chicks and chickens (youngest are 9 weeks, oldest are 4 1/2 months) corid or sulmet? To give them a boost?
Only the 2 chickens limped the one was 5 weeks old and died in 24hrs. The second limped at 2 weeks old and just for a week. The right leg refused to work at all. She would sit with her leg out straight in front. She got better and in a 1 1/2 she fine. No limping at all. Then when she was 8 weeks old she was lethargic, and sat in the corner with her feathers fluffed out, she wouldn't eat or drink, after feeding and watering her with a syringe for 3 days she died.
The last chick that died was 9 weeks old, and had no symptoms at all. Nothing. He was fine, running, playing, eating and drinking and we woke up with a dead chick.

Again thank you for any help I can get.

 

[ChickensAreSweet]

Quote:
I wouldn't give healthy chicks Corid or Sulmet in the large doses myself, but you can give them small doses of Amprolium (Corid) by feeding medicated chick starter (look on the bag to see). This is not a guarantee against coccidiosis. Also if you have had them vaccinated for it, it will negate the effects of the vaccine I have read.

Sorry I can't be of more assistance.

https://attra.ncat.org/attra-pub/summaries/summary.php?pub=225
info on coccidiosis
https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=7105303
this thread might be helpful

Also, you can type in the search bar "one leg forward mareks" and see if you can find similar threads.

 

[galanie]

It still sounds suspiciously like Marek's to me. But I've often found that even a wrong answer can bump up a question and get others to reply.

 

[seminolewind]

I see you are getting some real good answers.
If they did have Marek's, they would have had to get it from another chicken that had it. If they were all hatched at home, that exposure isn't there.
Chickensaresweet makes some really good points for coccidiosis, and her info is right on!

If they were mine, I would toss the feed, and give them plain water. I wonder if they ate anything bad?
I would treat for coccidiosis because that's the most common reason for young chickens dying.
Could a limp or limp leg be more from weakness?

 

[lucidmom]

We spoke with our local vet (he loaned us the incubator and it was thoroughly disenfected) and he said maybe something genetic since it's only the black orp's that are dieing. He said if another one dies he wants to send it in to the state for the testing. Well, we are out of blacks now. Has anyone else heard of a genetic problem with black orps?
We bought 6 chicks from the local farm and feed store. Then purchased eggs to hatch ourselves. Being it was our first hatch we got 3 babies. Then on the day they hatched, the other eggs we purchased arrived. We again dissenfected the incubator and had 15 babies. Of those 2 died in the shell fully formed and no more yolk sac. They were both black. The chick that died at 2 days old was black. The 4th chick that died was from the first batch of eggs, and black. The 5th and 6th were from the second batch of eggs. Again, both black. Of all the birds we had (21 total) we only kept 10. They are 3 from the feed store, 2 blue, 2 lavendar, and the 3 blacks (which all died). We have not heard if the other blacks we gave away are still alive or not. We will find out tomorrow.
I can't take loosing anymore. The little boogers have grown on me. Last night, while eating a plate of watermelon, the California White (her name is "Star", my son named her) jumped into my lap and proceeded to eat off my plate. The ones from the feed store should have been vacaanated, and Marek's doesn't survive incubation.