Blue Laced Barnevelder

[Cammo77]

Can anyone give me the perfect "recipe" to breed Blue Laced Barnevelders? I have read on a website/blog that a Splash rooster over a Double laced hen worked well. I have also read that because the blue colour is a dilution then a blue over blue won't always breed true and getting good lacing in blues is very hard to get. Someone shared with me a colour chart of the results of the two crosses but I was wondering if the rooster or hen passes on more of the character traits I'm looking for.
Ideally I'd like to breed a line of blue hens with a black head and nice lacing. Not interested in showing birds just want a nice flock of layers and sell any excess.

 

[NatJ]

Can anyone give me the perfect "recipe" to breed Blue Laced Barnevelders? I have read on a website/blog that a Splash rooster over a Double laced hen worked well. I have also read that because the blue colour is a dilution then a blue over blue won't always breed true and getting good lacing in blues is very hard to get. Someone shared with me a colour chart of the results of the two crosses but I was wondering if the rooster or hen passes on more of the character traits I'm looking for.

Perfect recipe? There is probably no such thing. For most chickens, there are quite a few good ways to breed them, but nothing perfect.

Do you already have access to Blue Laced Barnevelders? If yes, and if you've already seen a black/blue/splash breeding chart, then just breed laced Barnevelders to laced Barnevelders, following the black/blue/splash chart to figure out what color lacing they will have.

Blue x Blue will give about 25% splash, 50% blue, 25% black (those apply to just the parts of the chicken that would otherwise be black. They have no effect on the gold/red/silver parts of a chicken.)

If you do not have access to Blue Laced Barnevelders, and you are trying to create the color by starting with other colors, that is more complicated. The "best" method will depend on what varieties you do have access to.

I was wondering if the rooster or hen passes on more of the character traits I'm looking for.

It should not matter which is the mother and which is the father for the traits you are discussing. The only time it matters is with traits located on the Z sex chromosome (roosters have ZZ, hens have ZW). The traits you are talking about are not there.

 

[Cammo77]

Perfect recipe? There is probably no such thing. For most chickens, there are quite a few good ways to breed them, but nothing perfect.

Do you already have access to Blue Laced Barnevelders? If yes, and if you've already seen a black/blue/splash breeding chart, then just breed laced Barnevelders to laced Barnevelders, following the black/blue/splash chart to figure out what color lacing they will have.

Blue x Blue will give about 25% splash, 50% blue, 25% black (those apply to just the parts of the chicken that would otherwise be black. They have no effect on the gold/red/silver parts of a chicken.)

If you do not have access to Blue Laced Barnevelders, and you are trying to create the color by starting with other colors, that is more complicated. The "best" method will depend on what varieties you do have access to.


It should not matter which is the mother and which is the father for the traits you are discussing. The only time it matters is with traits located on the Z sex chromosome (roosters have ZZ, hens have ZW). The traits you are talking about are not there.

I think because you can cross the 4 different common colours to get a blue is kind of why asked for the "perfect" cross. I guess even with that there will be a difference between individual birds. I have 2 blues now and am thinking I'll try and find a blue rooster from a line with good lacing and put him over my blues plus get a couple of nice standard double laced hens. I'm not in a hurry to do this so I'm trying to learn as much as I can about their genetics till I'm ready. Thank you for the info. Very helpful.

 

[NatJ]

I think because you can cross the 4 different common colours to get a blue is kind of why asked for the "perfect" cross.

I don't know enough about Barnevelders to know which 4 colors are the common ones. Can you list them for me?

 

[Cammo77]

I don't know enough about Barnevelders to know which 4 colors are the common ones. Can you list them for me?

I'm definitely not an expert on them (or any chickens) but I know there's Double Laced (black with Mahogany), Silver Double Laced, Blue Laced and Splash. The Double Laced are often called Gold laced but the breeders I've heard from say that Gold is incorrect as it's Mahogany not Gold. The show breeders really focus on the lacing and getting that perfect and because the blue is a dilution it affects the lacing pattern. That's why I'm trying to understand the genetics to get a nicely laced blue but to be 100% honest my goal would be to breed healthy backyard layers that look pretty over breeding for the show pen.

 

[NatJ]

I'm definitely not an expert on them (or any chickens) but I know there's Double Laced (black with Mahogany), Silver Double Laced, Blue Laced and Splash. The Double Laced are often called Gold laced but the breeders I've heard from say that Gold is incorrect as it's Mahogany not Gold. The show breeders really focus on the lacing and getting that perfect and because the blue is a dilution it affects the lacing pattern. That's why I'm trying to understand the genetics to get a nicely laced blue but to be 100% honest my goal would be to breed healthy backyard layers that look pretty over breeding for the show pen.

If the "blue laced" have the same double lacing, and the same mahogany center in the feathers, then you should be able to interbreed them with the normal double laced ones. If the "splash" also have the double lacing with mahogany, they can be interbred freely as well.

At that point, there is really no reason to prefer blue x blue, or blue x black, or blue x splash. Every one of those will give about 50% blue chicks. Black x splash will give 100% blue chicks, but with no blue among the parents you cannot select for what shade of blue before you hatch the eggs.

Some chicken breeds also have a "blue laced" with chickens that are blue all over, with a black edge (lacing) on the feathers. Blue Andalusians are an example of this. And some some chicken breeds have chickens that are splash all over, with no visible lacing and no gold/red/mahogany colors. Those colorings would not be good to mix in, because even though the blue gene would work right, the feathers would not have the right pattern of lacing around mahogany centers.

But as long as all the chickens have lacing of one color or another (black, blue, or splash), and they have the right mahogany color in the middle of the feathers, you will probably want to breed from the ones with the best lacing, regardless of whether that lacing is black or blue or splash.

You say the blue is a dilution that affects the lacing pattern-- I thought it just affected the color of the lacing (black becomes blue or splash), not the actual pattern (where the color is on the feather.) If the blue gene can change where the colors appear on each feather, then I can't help, because I don't know about that.

Probably the "safest" or most certain way to deal with this is to pick the most perfect birds you can (good blue shade, good lacing pattern) and breed them to each other. Half the chicks will also show blue, with the other half having the wrong colors (black or splash.) This way, at least you can see how the blue affects the birds you are choosing as breeders. And if you find a pair that produces really nice chicks, definitely keep repeating that mating, regardless of whether it fits any prediction of what "should" work well.

 

[Cammo77]

If the "blue laced" have the same double lacing, and the same mahogany center in the feathers, then you should be able to interbreed them with the normal double laced ones. If the "splash" also have the double lacing with mahogany, they can be interbred freely as well.

At that point, there is really no reason to prefer blue x blue, or blue x black, or blue x splash. Every one of those will give about 50% blue chicks. Black x splash will give 100% blue chicks, but with no blue among the parents you cannot select for what shade of blue before you hatch the eggs.

Some chicken breeds also have a "blue laced" with chickens that are blue all over, with a black edge (lacing) on the feathers. Blue Andalusians are an example of this. And some some chicken breeds have chickens that are splash all over, with no visible lacing and no gold/red/mahogany colors. Those colorings would not be good to mix in, because even though the blue gene would work right, the feathers would not have the right pattern of lacing around mahogany centers.

But as long as all the chickens have lacing of one color or another (black, blue, or splash), and they have the right mahogany color in the middle of the feathers, you will probably want to breed from the ones with the best lacing, regardless of whether that lacing is black or blue or splash.

You say the blue is a dilution that affects the lacing pattern-- I thought it just affected the color of the lacing (black becomes blue or splash), not the actual pattern (where the color is on the feather.) If the blue gene can change where the colors appear on each feather, then I can't help, because I don't know about that.

Probably the "safest" or most certain way to deal with this is to pick the most perfect birds you can (good blue shade, good lacing pattern) and breed them to each other. Half the chicks will also show blue, with the other half having the wrong colors (black or splash.) This way, at least you can see how the blue affects the birds you are choosing as breeders. And if you find a pair that produces really nice chicks, definitely keep repeating that mating, regardless of whether it fits any prediction of what "should" work well.

From what I have just read the Pattern gene and the Melanotic gene which are required to get the double lacing are very close and work together, so that's why the blue (or splash) with good lacing is hard to get because of the dilution. I'm getting plenty of good info from the FB group I'm in but I asked a question similar to my original question and got no response....hence why I'm asking here. I'm going to write down the info I have so I can organise it better in my brain. I don't want to steal others intellectual property by sharing screenshots. I have a book on chicken breeding and genetics coming soon so that will help too.

Thank you so much for your help and will definitely take everything on board that you've shared with me. I think from what you've suggested I'll just try to breed the best blues with blues and sell off any DL, SDL, splash offspring and only keep the best blues. Will definitely be breeding for temperament and the healthiest girls as well.

 

[Egghead_Jr]

Do not confuse splash with another variety. It's blue. As stated above and seen on charts everywhere blue over blue is ..., splash over blue is..., etc. Keep in mind the blue gene dilutes black. One copy of this gene results in blue, two copies of the blue gene is splash. As you see, it's the same gene at work that stacks in expression. Blue color is some dilution and nearly complete dilution is white with splashes of blue coming through here and there.

To breed it is recommended to always use a blue bird. Better yet is all parents are blue. But due to lacing quality or body type you are limited to what you should be breeding so splash or double laced birds are used. The reason for always using a blue bird in the mix is for consistency of lacing and color. The blue tone varies and it takes selection to hone that in on a flock. The more you narrow the variance of tone the more consistent the offspring will be for it. Pigeon blue tone is what you are going for.

It's not apparent what kind of lacing quality a splash bird has. Why they should not be used unless they are of exceptional body type. Using black birds will darken the blue in offspring some. Blue over blue mating over generations will dilute the color tone. It becomes a balancing act of pairings. The tendency of people with blue color is to mate splash to black to produce all blue offspring. The disadvantage and reason more serious breeders do not do that is the tone of blue in offspring will be everywhere. Any work done to hone it in on pigeon tone is thrown out the window and you are starting again.

 

[Cammo77]

Do not confuse splash with another variety. It's blue. As stated above and seen on charts everywhere blue over blue is ..., splash over blue is..., etc. Keep in mind the blue gene dilutes black. One copy of this gene results in blue, two copies of the blue gene is splash. As you see, it's the same gene at work that stacks in expression. Blue color is some dilution and nearly complete dilution is white with splashes of blue coming through here and there.

To breed it is recommended to always use a blue bird. Better yet is all parents are blue. But due to lacing quality or body type you are limited to what you should be breeding so splash or double laced birds are used. The reason for always using a blue bird in the mix is for consistency of lacing and color. The blue tone varies and it takes selection to hone that in on a flock. The more you narrow the variance of tone the more consistent the offspring will be for it. Pigeon blue tone is what you are going for.

It's not apparent what kind of lacing quality a splash bird has. Why they should not be used unless they are of exceptional body type. Using black birds will darken the blue in offspring some. Blue over blue mating over generations will dilute the color tone. It becomes a balancing act of pairings. The tendency of people with blue color is to mate splash to black to produce all blue offspring. The disadvantage and reason more serious breeders do not do that is the tone of blue in offspring will be everywhere. Any work done to hone it in on pigeon tone is thrown out the window and you are starting again.

Oh wow That makes total sense about the splash birds. Thank you for this info. All makes sense. I wasn't a big fan of the Splash colouring so am happy to just keep Blues. When it comes time to start I'll be trying to buy a top notch Blue rooster but in the meantime I'll be replacing my flock now with good quality Blue pullets. I have 2 pullets now which don't have particularly good lacing but they are nice natured girls. I have another that was sold to me as a Blue laced Barnevelder but I think she's a cross.

 

[sunnie7]

This year I’m breeding my Blue Rooster over my hens with the best lacing. I can’t wait to see how my chicks turn out!