Blue Laced Red Wyandotte THREAD!

[Krazzy]

delisha, you have made some very valid points. i will take your advice and acquire better stock in the spring. thanks for your opinion.

 

[Our Roost]

delisha, So what you are saying is that Hatcheries are not using their show quality stock (which they most certainly have) to supply you with good quality birds each and every year? Bad choice of words by you in my opinion. These hatcheries wouldnt have survived for as long as they have if they kept breeding bad quality birds with smaller and smaller skinny chests. Something very wrong with your opinion of hatcheries. I myself used a hatchery cock that won a few awards through showing. Culling has been done for centuries and is a tryed and true method to obtaining better quality stock. I have to agree that not all the birds I have acquired through a hatchery are perfect and would only qualify as pet quality. Thats not to say you cant get good birds from a hatchery as you so suggest.

 

[Fancychooklady]

If I were in the states, I would be trying to source Foleys birds. Even he would not be selling his best breeders, but I have a feeling that his cast offs would be better than hatchery stock.

 

[Nickeechickee]

Curious - since mine will be from a hatchery and it came up - what does everyone have against hatcheries? What makes their birds inferior to a breeder? While on this forum I have seen very few positive opinions about hatcheries...(FWIW I'm not going to be breeding, just wondered why everyone was so anti-hatchery. If I didn't go hatchery I would have a very hard time getting anything other than production birds where I am at.)

 

[delisha]

Curious - since mine will be from a hatchery and it came up - what does everyone have against hatcheries? What makes their birds inferior to a breeder? While on this forum I have seen very few positive opinions about hatcheries...(FWIW I'm not going to be breeding, just wondered why everyone was so anti-hatchery. If I didn't go hatchery I would have a very hard time getting anything other than production birds where I am at.)

there is NOTHING wrong with hatcherys..they play an important and vital part in raising chickens..

It is a perfect place to go for egg layers and pets..

you can get a variety of birds and decorate your whole yard in all different colors.

 

[gladahmae]

delisha, So what you are saying is that Hatcheries are not using their show quality stock (which they most certainly have) to supply you with good quality birds each and every year? Bad choice of words by you in my opinion. These hatcheries wouldnt have survived for as long as they have if they kept breeding bad quality birds with smaller and smaller skinny chests. Something very wrong with your opinion of hatcheries. I myself used a hatchery cock that won a few awards through showing. Culling has been done for centuries and is a tryed and true method to obtaining better quality stock. I have to agree that not all the birds I have acquired through a hatchery are perfect and would only qualify as pet quality. Thats not to say you cant get good birds from a hatchery as you so suggest.

I don't think she's saying you can't get good stock, just that it is highly unlikely. If hatcheries were *only* breeding sq stock to sell, I wouldn't have had 4 single-combed Wyandottes, almost all with incomplete lacing, and all splash out of 10 birds. Hatcheries (the big ones) are filling the area of the market for people who want egg layers. While you *can* get good birds from them, the odds are not with you.

 

[Our Roost]

Nickeechickee, in reality, they the hatcheries are a breeder of sorts but sell birds in great quantity. A private breeder can select a good bird to sell you from his flock of near perfect birds coming from awesome bloodlines. A hatchery doesn't take the time to go through its award winning chickens stock to single out a few chicks for you to purchase. What you see is what you get. Hatcheries maintain their good bloodlines for breeding just like a qualified private breeder does. Keep in mind the number of cocks and hens used to produce all those chicks they sell every year. Rest assured all chicks dont come out perfect even with a good bloodline to support it. You will more than likely end up with chicks of good pet quality and nothing more. Getting better stock from a private breeder is definately a better choice hands down.
Getting a bit of history about a private breeder is very important. The farmer down the road so to speak may not have stock that is what you are truly seeking. Owning award winning chickens and breeding consistent strains takes hard work, years and sometimes generations to achieve. In my opinion, people can rag on hatcheries all they want but they are not as bad as one might think. There are more backyard chicken members on this web site than there are professional breeders. It all depends on what your personal aspirations deem you to do. If you decide to compete and breed seek the best of the best. Otherwise, hatchery stock is generally affordable and suitable for your needs.

 

[Farmer Viola]

Anecdotally.. I had very bad luck with the health of birds coming from a hatchery. They would get sick and die slowly with symptoms that could not be attributed to any 1 disease. I spent hours and hours researching and buying books trying to figure out what was wrong. I think each one had something different. They were (in my opinion) just lesser quality - think weaker, more disease prone, with twisted legs and scales, some with splayed legs and chronic prolapse (culling for prolapse isn't something I should have to do). I had 12 pullets (12wk) and ended up with only 4 adult hens (1yr), at which point I decided to get rid of them and start over with higher quality stock.

The other BIG difference I have noticed is that hatchery birds were all VERY flighty, absolutely terrified of humans. These were my first chickens, so I wanted them as pets, and I absolutely could not tame them no matter how many mealworms or how much time I spent with them. Even after I would have them inside my house for weeks doctoring them and they went back outside they would not remember or trust me.

now.. I am raising chicks that are from small breeders (ie flocks under 50ish) and the difference is night and day. The Wyandottes I hatched have such amazing personalities! They are so calm and sweet and docile. I would not believe it is possible to breed such strong behavioral differences, if I had not experienced it myself. You can reach your hand into their cage and pet them without them flipping their lids. I really really really think that was bred into them! I can see the generations of work put into them in their personalities alone.


Edit:
I have heard hatcheries compared to puppy mills, if you understand why they're bad, then you will understand why hatcheries are bad. They pump out huge quantities of chicks, creating thousands of generations that were raised artificially (without mothers) and without human contact. So generation upon generation of inheirited traits and personalities. Also, you have a limited gene pool being used to create mass numbers of chicks, USUALLY with artificial insemination because they are not allowed to free range or anything like a normal chicken. So you are getting all that history when you buy their chicks. I wanted to make sure I raise hens with mothering instincts so they could brood chicks in the future. I doubt hatchery hens will ever go broody, it's not in their nature since it's been bred out of them. The breeder I'm getting wyandottes from has 13 roos over 40-something hens, so I think that's a pretty good gene pool by comparison.

 

[carriebain]

Anecdotally.. I had very bad luck with the health of birds coming from a hatchery. They would get sick and die slowly with symptoms that could not be attributed to any 1 disease. I spent hours and hours researching and buying books trying to figure out what was wrong. I think each one had something different. They were (in my opinion) just lesser quality - think weaker, more disease prone, with twisted legs and scales, some with splayed legs and chronic prolapse (culling for prolapse isn't something I should have to do)

The other BIG difference I have noticed is that hatchery birds were all VERY flighty, absolutely terrified of humans. These were my first chickens, so I wanted them as pets, and I absolutely could not tame them no matter how many mealworms or how much time I spent with them. Even after I would have them inside my house for weeks doctoring them and they went back outside they would not remember or trust me.

now.. I am raising chicks that are from small breeders (ie flocks under 50ish) and the difference is night and day. The Wyandottes I hatched have such amazing personalities! They are so calm and sweet and docile. I would not believe it is possible to breed such strong behavioral differences, if I had not experienced it myself. You can reach your hand into their cage and pet them without them flipping their lids. I really really really think that was bred into them! I can see the generations of work put into them in their personalities alone.


Edit:
I have heard hatcheries compared to puppy mills, if you understand why they're bad, then you will understand why hatcheries are bad. They pump out huge quantities of chicks, creating thousands of generations that were raised artificially (without mothers) and without human contact. So generation upon generation of inheirited traits and personalities. Also, you have a limited gene pool being used to create mass numbers of chicks, USUALLY with artificial insemination because they are not allowed to free range or anything like a normal chicken. So you are getting all that history when you buy their chicks. I wanted to make sure I raise hens with mothering instincts so they could brood chicks in the future. I doubt hatchery hens will ever go broody, it's not in their nature since it's been bred out of them. The breeder I'm getting wyandottes from has 13 roos over 40-something hens, so I think that's a pretty good gene pool by comparison.

Great point! That's what I compare them to, puppy mills! Anything in mass quantity can't be good in the long run.

 

[malndobe]

Anecdotally.. I had very bad luck with the health of birds coming from a hatchery. They would get sick and die slowly with symptoms that could not be attributed to any 1 disease. I spent hours and hours researching and buying books trying to figure out what was wrong. I think each one had something different. They were (in my opinion) just lesser quality - think weaker, more disease prone, with twisted legs and scales, some with splayed legs and chronic prolapse (culling for prolapse isn't something I should have to do). I had 12 pullets (12wk) and ended up with only 4 adult hens (1yr), at which point I decided to get rid of them and start over with higher quality stock.

The other BIG difference I have noticed is that hatchery birds were all VERY flighty, absolutely terrified of humans. These were my first chickens, so I wanted them as pets, and I absolutely could not tame them no matter how many mealworms or how much time I spent with them. Even after I would have them inside my house for weeks doctoring them and they went back outside they would not remember or trust me.

On the flip side I have had hatchery birds for years and out of all of them only 1 ever died from a cause other than a predator. She was 2 years old and I don't know why she died, at first I thought she was egg bound but that turned out to not be the case, she just didn't seem to feel well and within 48 hours was dead. The rest have thrived on basic food and free ranging in my backyard, no medical care, etc. When I started buying birds from breeders I had them getting sick, dying, bringing in sicknesses I'd never had problems with, etc. My friendliest birds have also been hatchery birds (for the most part) and my breeder birds more flighty.

I would not be surprised if actual statistics were compiled if hatchery birds had a higher instance of inherited issues such as the things you mentioned (twisted legs, prolapse, etc) because they are producing them in such quantities and aren't raising the vast majority of them to adulthood, so don't know what is being produced physically. Just because the parent is fine doesn't mean it's not producing a high instance of some issue(s). On the flip side it would not surprise me either if a study showed that hatchery birds have stronger immune systems in terms of disease, just because a hatchery setting really is going to be "the strong survive" in terms of their environment. While many back yard flocks aren't exposed to a lot of chicken diseases, so generation after generation there is no selection for birds with resistance, because their is no exposure.

We'll see where I am in a few years but my plan is to start with breeder BLRW just to start with better type, then I will be selecting heavily for faster maturing, larger birds with good immune systems and health. I've already culled a number of breeder birds for various reasons, but I think I may finally have a starting point. If "looks" take a hit in the process so be it, although I'll try to not let it happen to much. I may have to bring something in later to help improve in that area. But I have no use for birds who are perfect in every way in terms of shape, color, comb, etc who lay 100 eggs a year and don't start laying until a year of age.