Blue wyandotte leg color?

[blackdotte]

Hi Tim, I agree with what you say if your aim is pullet breeders based on eb/eb , but you will not get exhibition males out of this method.
The only way to get exhibition males to meet our Standard, black plumage,black to the skin undercolour and yellow legs is to have a ER/eb based bird. I believe the US Standard allows for white undercolour under the neck hackle, remainder light grey, and some white in the wings our does not. Blue is just a diluted Black so for Blue read it where I have noted Black in the above.
David

 

[tadkerson]

Mike,

Yes that will work. When you make your first cross you need not hatch too many chicks- enough to get a male and female. In the F1 x F1 cross you will want to hatch 25 or more. Pick F2 birds that have the cleanest legs and the best black color and make an F2 x F2 cross.

If there are any recessive black intensifiers in the blue female- the recessive black intensifiers will show up in the F2.

You should hatch some good F3.

Sex linked dermal melanin should not be a problem.
Sex linked dermal melanin would be a problem if you had birds with green shanks and feet show up in your crossing.

You will have to check the under color of your birds after the first cross. If the under color is white to silver then the gold laced wyandotte is carrying a modifier that is causing the white under color. Melanotic with eb and a modifier ( do not know what it is ) will cause white to silver undercolor in black eb birds. There is no mistaking the under color it will be self evident.

David,

Black wyandotte males in the USA should have slate (gray)under color and blues should have blueish slate. Slate is open to interpretation by a judge and I would also say the breeder. Some birds should have dark slate. That is the problem with subjective qualitative properties. The scientist in me wants to quantify ever thing; it would be great to use a spectrophotometer to measure the color and not the human eye.

Tim

 

[Krys109uk]

Black wyandotte males in the USA should have slate (gray)under color and blues should have blueish slate. Slate is open to interpretation by a judge and I would also say the breeder. Some birds should have dark slate.

How do you achieve this with eb males & not get the white undercolour? Can it be done without using ER?
Is the white caused by the melanotic or the modifier or both together in eb males?​

 

[tadkerson]

I produced almost black barnevelder and they had gray undercolor. I had to drop the project and sold the birds.

I have also had black birds that had yellow legs but had white under color.
I sold the birds from the project.

I do not know what genes are responsible for the white under color.

I start projects but have to stop them because I do not have the room. If I ever get some acreage and better facilities I will be able to come up with some answers.

Tim

 

[Katy]

I wish someone would translate all this good info into english for me....my brain is too old to understand all the ins and outs of this genetics stuff, but I'd really love to improve my blue wyandottes' leg color.

 

[Mrs. Turbo]

that is what I was thinking....Dh is the genetics guy around here.

 

[ceadar post]

Thanks people, all this info is good. I will try this Tim and see what happens that was kinda my thinking when starting this thread. I'm also starting a standard buff columbian wyandotte project just got the chicks so will be doing some breeding the next few years. Thanks to all. Mike

 

[Mrs. Turbo]

Are we talking about bantam or large fowl?

Katy almost all the blues that we have (we have blues from the same source) show black in the shanks. I was able to purchase a large fowl black wyandotte cockerel that has good clean yellow legs and he comes from a cock line, all the hens from this line show black in the shanks...I need to check his undercolor and see what he has.

I know the breeder of the black wyandotte roo had warned me about using black hens with clean yellow legs...he had tried using them and the cockerels started loosing their green sheen and were getting a flat black color. He advised me to use only hens with some black on their shanks...

Anyway I am using him and I am sure that all the pullets will have black on their shanks...I think most judges just check to see if they have any black on the bottom of their feet.

I have read somewhere that you can use a partridge wyandotte on the blacks to improve yellow...but I only know one source for good large fowl partridge wyandottes.

Also I have crossed BLRW on my blues before and the F1's had much less black on their legs...but I dont think I will be using them.

Jerry

 

[ceadar post]

The blues I'm talking about are large fowl. Mike

 

[blackdotte]

The natural undercolour for an eb Brown bird is blue/grey, however on an eb bird melanisers are required to get a solid black plumage.
The most commonly found is Melanotic Ml, which like all melanisers puts melanin into the shanks & beak as well as the feathers. Ml has a side effect in that it is hormone influenced. You will notice pullet breeder males have black undercolour until about 12-14 weeks, then the male hormones kick in & Ml turns the undercolour to white to pale grey. Pullets are unaffected.
A combination ,in cockerel breeders, of ER/eb overcomes this affect due to the additional melanin deposit from ER, but they are not true breeding and you get a lot of cull birds.
David