Botulism or Mareks or something else

[Baybrio]

My four week old Salmon Faverolles chick is having trouble walking.

He is one of eight that two of my hens brooded. I can't remember if they are 4 or 5 weeks old. They (2 hens and 8 chicks) moved outside to my secure chicken tractor two weeks ago.

I move the tractor around my backyard every few days. The tractor has no floor but does have raised nesting boxes and raised feeders.

They eat a non medicated chick starter.

The other 7 chicks seem just fine. One of the hens is molting, otherwise they are fine. All my other chickens seem normal.

I noticed this chick not quite keeping up with the others two afternoons ago. Yesterday afternoon it was even less active, not really leaving the coop and its crop was not full as it had been the previous evening. However it made it up the ramp to the nesting boxes and was under one of the hens so I did not want to bother it. I brought him in this morning. Gave him some of his regular crumbles and water with Blue Ribbon Poultry Electrolytes ("A supplemental source of electrolytes nutrients and direct-fed microbials").

He cannot walk normally and spends most of his time with his legs under him but not standing. He can run a few steps but its wobbly. He is eating and drinking. He can fully extend his wings. I'm trying to keep him quiet but there is clearing nothing wrong with his chirping. His poop looks normal. I think his down looks a little funny.

I have this horrible feeling that it might be botulism. When I checked the tractor yesterday I found a large pile of spilled feed beside their raised feeder. The grass was a bit tall and may have been a bit damp (although not wet) when I moved their tractor to that spot. The spilled feed was definitely on big damp lump, laying in the dark longish grass. The weather has been very cool, until the last couple of days, not its hot and humid.

When I noticed the nasty food lump I immediately moved the hens and chicks out and moved the tractor to a very dry spot with short grass.

This morning I've read about both botulism and Mareks. I'm having trouble figuring out which my chick may have. And if it is one or the other should I be doing anything different for this chick? Do you think their is any chance for this chick?

This is my first time having chicks from my own birds and I'm so upset I may have killed this little guy.

 

[mypicklebird]

If the chick can't keep up with the rest, and is getting left behind my mother hen- the cold will kill it just as fast as any disease. You need to bring this guy inside and create a brooder. In chicks recently introduced to dirt & the great outdoors- I would be more concerned about coccidia than botulism or marek's. You have a 4 week old chick that sounds weak- that could be just about anything- cold, coccidia (this does not always cause diarrhea), mites/lice infestation, diet deficiency, ect.

 

[dixiechick]

I agree.....does sound like Botulism to me....if you want to try to save him, take him to a vet. Other than that, it kills in a matter of days. It is a sad, slow death.

 

[Baybrio]

Thanks for the quick replys.

Dixiechick, I'll contact a vet, do you know if the botulism treatment is effective this long (2 days) after exposure?

mypicklebird, not to worry I've brought him in, he is warm and isolated. I've checked very carefully for mites/lice and don't see any signs on any of the birds, I thought of that too. Hopefully the water supplement will take care of any nutritional deficiencies. I could switch the chick to a medicated feed, would this help with a case of coccidia, or is the amount of coccidiant (sp?) in the feed geared more toward prevention?

 

[Judy]

I'd also be more likely to suspect cocci than anything else, unless the spilled feed was obviously moldy or spoiled and you are sure they were eating it. And especially because they are on unmedicated feed. If vet care is not an option, a round of Corid is not going to hurt any of them, and might solve the problem. Not a lot you can do about Marek's or botulism, anyway, though there are some supportive measures you could take.

Good luck.

 

[dixiechick]

Quote:
The quicker you get it to a vet, the better the outcome. I waited a week....it was too long.

 

[Judy]

We were typing at the same time.

You should not be seeing normal poos with botulism. And if it were, your suspicion is correct, 2 days is probably too long.

Amprolium is the coccidiostat in most medicated feed, as well as the ingredient in Corid, though Corid has a much higher dose. You are also correct in suspecting that the amount in feed is not enough to address a case of cocci, if that is what is going on, and I certainly don't know for sure.

I hope you'll let us know how it comes out.

Here is a thread on botulism:

https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=212876

The flush treatment they are talking about is extremely hard on them and can actually kill in itself.

 

[Baybrio]

Hi Folks,

Thank you all for your advise. I wanted to update you. I euthanized him yesterday evening. He was not improving. Even though he was eating he was loosing weight and seemed to be getting weaker.

Maybe I should have tried the flush but I thought it was too late to be effective and I did not want to put him through the trauma.

I did try the Corrid and vitamins, etc. It was very sad.

 

[threehorses]

Quote:
I'm very sorry to hear of the loss of your baby. I wish I had seen this earlier, but it looks like you had good help.

I just wanted to say a few things so that hopefully we will all come away with this as a learning experience so the little baby's life will have improved Baybrio's flock's life, and the lives of our own.

First, if it had been botulism, true botulism, the baby wouldn't have made it past day one - not at that age.

I agree that probably the combination of damp and cooler weather, then additionally feed that was soured (which isn't necessarily botulism but can cause mildew issues and some toxins), and then those conditions potentially weakening his immune system (and he's not on medicated feed to make up for that, amprolium) were are part of the problem.

I don't think the flush would have helped. Maybe a gentle cleansing, but I feel the flush would have been too harsh for him. I am totally with ddawn on this. So please have no regrets on this.

I just think toxins from the soured feed, the changes in his gut, and the weather changes were the problem - and that they caused weakness, he couldn't catch up.

For the rest of the babies and mom, if you see any babies that are at all lethargic, I would consider Corid and probiotics (yogurt or another probiotic). I would also recommend putting them on amprolium medicated starter while they're on dirt and with hens. It'll help them develop a natural immunity to common cocci so that you won't have to end up treating or losing babies. Amprolium isn't an antibiotic, isn't used in humans, and is fine for the starter ages even for the most nature-conscious poultry raisers. They have the rest of their lives to have more natural foods, but they do have to make it through those delicate first 8 weeks and it's best they do so without their budding immune systems being challenged any more than they already are.

This is not really aimed at you, Baybrio (though I hope the information is useful) but at all of us who raise babies, and anyone who might read this later.

Again I'm very sorry for your loss and wish you the absolute best with the rest of your flock, hon.

 

[Baybrio]

Thanks Threehorses, no offense taken. This is such a learning experience.

For some reason I thought that if the chicks were with the hen from the start that maybe they should not be on medicated feed, that it would reduce their ability to develop natural immunity.

As you said, and I've since read elsewhere, this is not the case. I feed all the chicks that I purchased from hatcheries medicated chick starter. So I'm doubly kicking myself for not feeding it to these little guys. Luckily all the others are running around and growing like weeds.

I did want to post this issue because I can't believe I'm the only one that might have this mold issue with the chicken tractors. Especially with this odd wet hot one day, cold the next weather I think we all need to be extra vigilante.

Thanks again.