Brahma Breeding Plans (sex-link)

[FeatheredFeetFanatic]

Hello all! I'm just beginning my journey breeding my birds and I've finally found a breeding plan I'd like to do. I'm obsessed with Brahmas and find them to be a near perfect bird for people like myself who are focused on a family friendly dual-purposed breed. The only thing I could think to improve on is to be able to sex them immediately but from my research this seems easily doable by crossing a gold roo(buff or partridge) with silver hens(lights [possibly isabelle?]). My hesitation with this is it seems so easy and yet I can't find a lot of information about anyone doing this. I've read a few short comment sections and 1 scientific paper on this that all confirm it's accurate but I guess not finding anything about anyone actually do so is giving me pause.

What I'd like to do it have 3 pens 1. light brahmas 2. buff brahmas 3. buff roo x light hens. Then I can produce pure lights & buffs and sex-links. From what I'm reading this should work but I'd love any input on if I'm wrong or any issues I'm not seeing.

One problem I'm immediatly finding is getting my hands on good quality birds. I can find hatchery stock easily but especially buffs I'm not finding anyone who has breeder quality. I'd love if anyone can point me in a good direction to find GOOD birds. The only other thing I'm thinking is to buy a bunch of chicks from some big online hatcheries and keep the best ones for breeding?

So I guess this is ending up a 2 part/ give me any info you think may be relevant kind of question, thanks in advance for any help!!

 

[NatJ]

What I'd like to do it have 3 pens 1. light brahmas 2. buff brahmas 3. buff roo x light hens. Then I can produce pure lights & buffs and sex-links. From what I'm reading this should work but I'd love any input on if I'm wrong or any issues I'm not seeing.

Yes, that should work fine.

My hesitation with this is it seems so easy and yet I can't find a lot of information about anyone doing this. I've read a few short comment sections and 1 scientific paper on this that all confirm it's accurate but I guess not finding anything about anyone actually do so is giving me pause.

It should work, but for most people it is not worth the effort of keeping separate pens.

Early sexing only matters if you are going to treat the sexes differently. If you are going to raise them all to butchering age, then butcher the males and keep the females, there is no benefit to sexlinks. You can tell the sexes just fine by the time they reach butchering age.

For hatcheries that want to sell large numbers of sexed chicks, it is easier to hire people to vent-sex the birds.

Anyone breeding for show or trying to improve the breed in general will want to be able to keep the colors separate so they can carefully breed the best to the best within their own color. You can't select for "correct shade of gold" on silver hens!

One problem I'm immediatly finding is getting my hands on good quality birds. I can find hatchery stock easily but especially buffs I'm not finding anyone who has breeder quality. I'd love if anyone can point me in a good direction to find GOOD birds. The only other thing I'm thinking is to buy a bunch of chicks from some big online hatcheries and keep the best ones for breeding?

I don't know where to find breeders.

You certainly can buy from hatcheries and then breed from the best of those birds. The more you buy, the better chance of finding some nice ones. (The best bird from 25 chicks is probably better than the best bird from 3 chicks.)

You might try buying from several different hatcheries, to see if the Brahmas from one are better than the Brahmas from another. If you find that they have different good qualities, you might end up mixing them to try to combine all the good points into a single new strain.

 

[FeatheredFeetFanatic]

Yes, that should work fine.


It should work, but for most people it is not worth the effort of keeping separate pens.

Early sexing only matters if you are going to treat the sexes differently. If you are going to raise them all to butchering age, then butcher the males and keep the females, there is no benefit to sexlinks. You can tell the sexes just fine by the time they reach butchering age.

For hatcheries that want to sell large numbers of sexed chicks, it is easier to hire people to vent-sex the birds.

Anyone breeding for show or trying to improve the breed in general will want to be able to keep the colors separate so they can carefully breed the best to the best within their own color. You can't select for "correct shade of gold" on silver hens!


I don't know where to find breeders.

You certainly can buy from hatcheries and then breed from the best of those birds. The more you buy, the better chance of finding some nice ones. (The best bird from 25 chicks is probably better than the best bird from 3 chicks.)

You might try buying from several different hatcheries, to see if the Brahmas from one are better than the Brahmas from another. If you find that they have different good qualities, you might end up mixing them to try to combine all the good points into a single new strain.

Thank you so much for the reply, it's given me a lot to think about which I very much appreciate. My hope in sex-linking them was to get rid of females sooner and keep the males for meat so I didn't have as many birds to feed for as long. But reading your reply it may be better to just learn to vent sex properly and focus on producing one color well. Again thanks for the help!

 

[NatJ]

Thank you so much for the reply, it's given me a lot to think about which I very much appreciate.

I'm glad I was able to help

My hope in sex-linking them was to get rid of females sooner and keep the males for meat so I didn't have as many birds to feed for as long.

That makes perfect sense. Yes, in that case the sexlinking could be quite useful.

But reading your reply it may be better to just learn to vent sex properly and focus on producing one color well. Again thanks for the help!

I don't personally know how to vent sex chicks, but from what I have read it is not particularly easy. So there is a chance that sexlinks might be the best choice anyway.

One more issue I just remembered with sexlinks: Brahma chicks can have large amounts of black or gray in their down. That makes it harder to tell gold from silver at hatch. It is probably still possible for most chicks, just not as easy as it would be if they did not have the black or gray.

A new thought:
Another kind of sexlink may also be possible. The fast & slow feathering genes are on the Z sex chromosome. Breeding a fast-feathering male to a slow-feathering female gives slow-feathering sons and fast-feathering daughters. Brahmas often have slow feathering, but fast feathering might exist in the breed too. If you buy chicks from hatcheries, watch the speed of feathering, and mark any that stand out as being much faster or slower than the rest. Having a fast-feathering line and a slow-feathering line would mean you can work with just one color but still sex them.

The feather sexing instructions that are all over the internet are for fast/slow feathering (the ones about wing feathers being staggered in length or all the same length). But if you don't check in the first few days, no problem: the feathering differences become more obvious over the first few weeks, as the fast-feathering birds grow a nice set of feathers and the slow-feathering ones still look half naked.

As long as they are Brahmas of reasonable quality, I do not think people buying chicks would object to having fast-feathering pullets, even if that is not the feathering speed most commonly found in the breed. Fast feathering is usually more convenient than slow feathering, because they can be off heat sooner.

 

[FeatheredFeetFanatic]

I'm glad I was able to help


That makes perfect sense. Yes, in that case the sexlinking could be quite useful.


I don't personally know how to vent sex chicks, but from what I have read it is not particularly easy. So there is a chance that sexlinks might be the best choice anyway.

One more issue I just remembered with sexlinks: Brahma chicks can have large amounts of black or gray in their down. That makes it harder to tell gold from silver at hatch. It is probably still possible for most chicks, just not as easy as it would be if they did not have the black or gray.

A new thought:
Another kind of sexlink may also be possible. The fast & slow feathering genes are on the Z sex chromosome. Breeding a fast-feathering male to a slow-feathering female gives slow-feathering sons and fast-feathering daughters. Brahmas often have slow feathering, but fast feathering might exist in the breed too. If you buy chicks from hatcheries, watch the speed of feathering, and mark any that stand out as being much faster or slower than the rest. Having a fast-feathering line and a slow-feathering line would mean you can work with just one color but still sex them.

Wow this is such an interesting thought and something I never would have considered! Seems like

The feather sexing instructions that are all over the internet are for fast/slow feathering (the ones about wing feathers being staggered in length or all the same length). But if you don't check in the first few days, no problem: the feathering differences become more obvious over the first few weeks, as the fast-feathering birds grow a nice set of feathers and the slow-feathering ones still look half naked.

As long as they are Brahmas of reasonable quality, I do not think people buying chicks would object to having fast-feathering pullets, even if that is not the feathering speed most commonly found in the breed. Fast feathering is usually more convenient than slow feathering, because they can be off heat sooner.

I'm glad I was able to help


That makes perfect sense. Yes, in that case the sexlinking could be quite useful.


I don't personally know how to vent sex chicks, but from what I have read it is not particularly easy. So there is a chance that sexlinks might be the best choice anyway.

One more issue I just remembered with sexlinks: Brahma chicks can have large amounts of black or gray in their down. That makes it harder to tell gold from silver at hatch. It is probably still possible for most chicks, just not as easy as it would be if they did not have the black or gray.

A new thought:
Another kind of sexlink may also be possible. The fast & slow feathering genes are on the Z sex chromosome. Breeding a fast-feathering male to a slow-feathering female gives slow-feathering sons and fast-feathering daughters. Brahmas often have slow feathering, but fast feathering might exist in the breed too. If you buy chicks from hatcheries, watch the speed of feathering, and mark any that stand out as being much faster or slower than the rest. Having a fast-feathering line and a slow-feathering line would mean you can work with just one color but still sex them.

The feather sexing instructions that are all over the internet are for fast/slow feathering (the ones about wing feathers being staggered in length or all the same length). But if you don't check in the first few days, no problem: the feathering differences become more obvious over the first few weeks, as the fast-feathering birds grow a nice set of feathers and the slow-feathering ones still look half naked.

As long as they are Brahmas of reasonable quality, I do not think people buying chicks would object to having fast-feathering pullets, even if that is not the feathering speed most commonly found in the breed. Fast feathering is usually more convenient than slow feathering, because they can be off heat sooner.

I'm glad I was able to help


That makes perfect sense. Yes, in that case the sexlinking could be quite useful.


I don't personally know how to vent sex chicks, but from what I have read it is not particularly easy. So there is a chance that sexlinks might be the best choice anyway.

I've been reading the same and quite frankly have always been hesitant to try myself for that reason.

One more issue I just remembered with sexlinks: Brahma chicks can have large amounts of black or gray in their down. That makes it harder to tell gold from silver at hatch. It is probably still possible for most chicks, just not as easy as it would be if they did not have the black or gray.

A new thought:
Another kind of sexlink may also be possible. The fast & slow feathering genes are on the Z sex chromosome. Breeding a fast-feathering male to a slow-feathering female gives slow-feathering sons and fast-feathering daughters. Brahmas often have slow feathering, but fast feathering might exist in the breed too. If you buy chicks from hatcheries, watch the speed of feathering, and mark any that stand out as being much faster or slower than the rest. Having a fast-feathering line and a slow-feathering line would mean you can work with just one color but still sex them.

The feather sexing instructions that are all over the internet are for fast/slow feathering (the ones about wing feathers being staggered in length or all the same length). But if you don't check in the first few days, no problem: the feathering differences become more obvious over the first few weeks, as the fast-feathering birds grow a nice set of feathers and the slow-feathering ones still look half naked.

What an interesting idea I NEVER would have thought of! And much less invasive than vent sexing too lol. Since it's seeming like my best bet is to sort through hatchery stock anyway for better quality and I've been producing my own Light Brahmas from my stock that's something that would be easy to observe and note.

Now that I've started looking into it I'm finding a lot of information like you said on fast vs slow-feathering so I'll keep going down that rabbit hole.

As long as they are Brahmas of reasonable quality, I do not think people buying chicks would object to having fast-feathering pullets, even if that is not the feathering speed most commonly found in the breed. Fast feathering is usually more convenient than slow feathering, because they can be off heat sooner.

Seems completely logical, thank you again for that inspiration! I think this would be easy project to run congruently with sex-linking, it'll be interesting to see between the 2 what would be easier and more reliable.

Thanks again for all this information it's given me much to think about and look into!!