Brainiacs wanted. Not emergency. calcium free feed for EYP? Surgery? Suprelorin?

[Jessmidwest]

Hello again.

We're still at it with Orpington. The vet has recommended surgery - but I'm still trying to figure out why. We've been draining her, in addition to ~ two vet visits a month, and she's as happy as a clam.

The vet saw an egg on its way on ultrasound today and went red alert. But we know she's been internally laying for probably over two months now.

She wants to remove the oviduct and we'll also do the implant.

But I know the implant may not work, or work well. So I guess I'm trying to figure out the reason to do surgery? I don't believe there's a case where she'll be able to clear out whatever is causing the impaction and subsequent EYP...right?

Not to mention she may die in surgery and have who knows what complications afterward. Pain management also feels like a high hurdle post surgery.

Anyway, am I missing something here?

I feel like I should do calcium free feed (recipes wanted if anyone has ever been down this road. A quick Google turned up nothing). And try the implant and hope for the best. I know we could also keep her in the dark for >16 hours a day but that seems cruel.

Thoughts anyone?

Many thanks yous in advance.

 

[nuthatched]

I'm sorry to hear that.
Low calcium feed is available but there's no such thing as calcium free.
Why do you think calcium free will help?

 

[Jessmidwest]

I'm sorry to hear that.
Low calcium feed is available but there's no such thing as calcium free.
Why do you think calcium free will help?

'When hens are fed on a calcium-deficient diet they normally stop laying after 10-14 days (Taylor et al., 1962). The cessation of egg production is due to the failure of gonado- trophin secretion by the anterior pituitary which causes the bird to stop ovulating.'
https://www.sciencedirect.com › ...PDF
The Effect of Calcium-Deficient Diet on the Reproductive Organs of the Hen (Gallus ...


Looks like I need to do some r&d here haha.

 

[Jessmidwest]

'When hens are fed on a calcium-deficient diet they normally stop laying after 10-14 days (Taylor et al., 1962). The cessation of egg production is due to the failure of gonado- trophin secretion by the anterior pituitary which causes the bird to stop ovulating.'
https://www.sciencedirect.com › ...PDF
The Effect of Calcium-Deficient Diet on the Reproductive Organs of the Hen (Gallus ...


Looks like I need to do some r&d here haha.

And thank you for the low calcium tip. Our hens are best friends, so separating them isn't possible re: feed. Plus they eat tons of bugs...I'll have to get creative and try and minimize Orpington's calcium while maintaining Sussex's health...now that I think of it, I believe spinach is supposed to inhibit absorption. Great Scott I'm into something.

 

[nuthatched]

'When hens are fed on a calcium-deficient diet they normally stop laying after 10-14 days (Taylor et al., 1962). The cessation of egg production is due to the failure of gonado- trophin secretion by the anterior pituitary which causes the bird to stop ovulating.'
https://www.sciencedirect.com › ...PDF
The Effect of Calcium-Deficient Diet on the Reproductive Organs of the Hen (Gallus ...


Looks like I need to do some r&d here haha.

I'm not sure that research is still the most accurate, given the age. Hens can experience laying issues (soft eggs, egg binding) if not enough calcium but it won't stop entirely. they also need calcium for their bodies. The ovulation cycle is triggered by light and general nutrition, if a hen is starving or malnourished, she won't lay.

 

[Jessmidwest]

And thank you for the low calcium tip. Our hens are best friends, so separating them isn't possible re: feed. Plus they eat tons of bugs...I'll have to get creative and try and minimize Orpington's calcium while maintaining Sussex's health...now that I think of it, I believe spinach is supposed to inhibit absorption. Great Scott I'm into something.

Well this is very stressful. After 45 minutes of me growing more concerned they took her for, what I assume, would be twilight anesthesia to put the implant in. I had been reading about topical lidocaine and thought we would be in and out. But no such luck. They gave a nasal sedative and topical lidocaine but she was still too perky for the procedure.



She also did confirm that there's no research actually supporting the oviduct removal. Just anecdotal.


Update on today's birth control implant:
It wasn't twilight..it was full has mask anesthesia. She's doing well now. We're back at home. I'll try and do a more detailed update of the vet visit and update of her presentation over the next few weeks to note any changes in behavior etc.

 

[Jessmidwest]

Well this is very stressful. After 45 minutes of me growing more concerned they took her for, what I assume, would be twilight anesthesia to put the implant in. I had been reading about topical lidocaine and thought we would be in and out. But no such luck. They gave a nasal sedative and topical lidocaine but she was still too perky for the procedure.



She also did confirm that there's no research actually supporting the oviduct removal. Just anecdotal.


Update on today's birth control implant:
It wasn't twilight..it was full has mask anesthesia. She's doing well now. We're back at home. I'll try and do a more detailed update of the vet visit and update of her presentation over the next few weeks to note any changes in behavior etc.

Today is day 5 post birth control implant. She stopped doing her submissive squat by day 2. I haven't caught any visits to the nest box. She still enjoys being held and carried around, but I generally have to gather her up in order to do this. Her voice seems a bit more subdued, and questionably less vocal overall. Otherwise, she's still carrying on as usual.

I know I read that the implant typically triggers a molt, but I haven't seen any signs of that yet. Additionally, her comb still appears the same to me.

I plan to take her in closer to the two week mark for another ultrasound and possibly pulling of any fluid if indicated. She did have a small but noticable amount of fluid retention the day of implant, but the vet was unable to address because of emergencies. It doesn't appear to have gotten worse. I'm hoping it dissipates on it's own.

As far as pricing went, two implants were 560$ (straight from the manufacturer) which made the vet visit for implant about 140$ (700$ total with one implant on standby). I know if it does work, it will become less effective with subsequent implants overtime. We're hoping this implant is successful, and then winter will assist for natural ovulation suppression.

I'll update as I notice more changes.

 

[Jessmidwest]

Today is day 5 post birth control implant. She stopped doing her submissive squat by day 2. I haven't caught any visits to the nest box. She still enjoys being held and carried around, but I generally have to gather her up in order to do this. Her voice seems a bit more subdued, and questionably less vocal overall. Otherwise, she's still carrying on as usual.

I know I read that the implant typically triggers a molt, but I haven't seen any signs of that yet. Additionally, her comb still appears the same to me.

I plan to take her in closer to the two week mark for another ultrasound and possibly pulling of any fluid if indicated. She did have a small but noticable amount of fluid retention the day of implant, but the vet was unable to address because of emergencies. It doesn't appear to have gotten worse. I'm hoping it dissipates on it's own.

As far as pricing went, two implants were 560$ (straight from the manufacturer) which made the vet visit for implant about 140$ (700$ total with one implant on standby). I know if it does work, it will become less effective with subsequent implants overtime. We're hoping this implant is successful, and then winter will assist for natural ovulation suppression.

I'll update as I notice more changes.

She has had the birth control implant for a week. I don't think she feels awful, but not so sure she feels great?

 

[Kenya Mwangi]

Hello again.

We're still at it with Orpington. The vet has recommended surgery - but I'm still trying to figure out why. We've been draining her, in addition to ~ two vet visits a month, and she's as happy as a clam.

The vet saw an egg on its way on ultrasound today and went red alert. But we know she's been internally laying for probably over two months now.

She wants to remove the oviduct and we'll also do the implant.

But I know the implant may not work, or work well. So I guess I'm trying to figure out the reason to do surgery? I don't believe there's a case where she'll be able to clear out whatever is causing the impaction and subsequent EYP...right?

Not to mention she may die in surgery and have who knows what complications afterward. Pain management also feels like a high hurdle post surgery.

Anyway, am I missing something here?

I feel like I should do calcium free feed (recipes wanted if anyone has ever been down this road. A quick Google turned up nothing). And try the implant and hope for the best. I know we could also keep her in the dark for >16 hours a day but that seems cruel.

Thoughts anyone?

Many thanks yous in advance.

Hello I do not know what can help your chicken. I just wanted to say I like your chickens face riding in the car. She popped out of the box and said "Are we there yet?" lol...but I hope she gets better.

 

[Jessmidwest]

Hello again.

We're still at it with Orpington. The vet has recommended surgery - but I'm still trying to figure out why. We've been draining her, in addition to ~ two vet visits a month, and she's as happy as a clam.

The vet saw an egg on its way on ultrasound today and went red alert. But we know she's been internally laying for probably over two months now.

She wants to remove the oviduct and we'll also do the implant.

But I know the implant may not work, or work well. So I guess I'm trying to figure out the reason to do surgery? I don't believe there's a case where she'll be able to clear out whatever is causing the impaction and subsequent EYP...right?

Not to mention she may die in surgery and have who knows what complications afterward. Pain management also feels like a high hurdle post surgery.

Anyway, am I missing something here?

I feel like I should do calcium free feed (recipes wanted if anyone has ever been down this road. A quick Google turned up nothing). And try the implant and hope for the best. I know we could also keep her in the dark for >16 hours a day but that seems cruel.

Thoughts anyone?

Many thanks yous in advance.

Just another brief update. Her abdomen is more swollen. So we'll likely attempt to drain with a neighbors assistance asap (also have call to vet requesting Mon appointment if no neighbor is available for the holiday weekend). She's definitely more lethargic and appears to not feel great. She does go around with her sister, but she takes more rest breaks-granted some of this might be related to the accumulating fluid from likely another internal lay. It will be two weeks post implant on Wednesday. I really hope the next week, after draining, goes more smoothly for her.