Breeding back with same rooster

[Steve_of_sandspoultry]

Quote:
Not correct, it is all inbreeding.

Pen breeding is uncontroled inbreeding

Line breeding is also inbreeding but is controled. (key word controled) Different animals/ species have different reactions to a given amount of inbreeding.

Steve in NC

 

[SpringChickens]

Quote:
Not correct, it is all inbreeding.

Pen breeding is uncontroled inbreeding

Line breeding is also inbreeding but is controled. (key word controled) Different animals/ species have different reactions to a given amount of inbreeding.

Steve in NC

Don't worry, it was a joke...

 

[Poulets De Cajun]

Quote:
Please elaborate.

 

[NYREDS]

Quote:
For the benefit of anyone new to this discussion who may be reading this thread, THERE IS NO GENETIC DIFFERENCE between breeding brother to sister vs breeding parents to offspring. It is EXACTLY the same degree of inbreeding. Truly.

Yes, parent-offspring matings are used more often, but that's for other reasons. The inbreeding coefficient is identical.

Pat

That's not right:

Lets look at it-

Sire AA mates with Dam BB
resulting in offspring AB

Next generation
Sire AA mates with offspring AB
Dam BB mates with offspring AB

Clearly they are not genetically the same mating as an offspring to offspring AB-AB mating.

 

[Momma_Cluck]

Exactly!
AB + AB usually brings out recessive (unwanted) genetics and problems....
a + AB or B+ AB usually keeps the dominant (wanted) genetics going...

Google "Mendels Law" it is all about breeding, inbreeding, genetics and hybrids..... It applies to both Animals and Plants.

 

[patandchickens]

Quote:
That is not what inbreeding is (not how it's calculated). You have to look at the whole suite of genes and probabilities.

Sorry, I am heading off to make dinner and can't sit down to set out the whole thing, but here are some links that explain (I have left in the google search part of the URL because it will highlight the relevant section of the page for you):

http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache...g"+"brother+sister"&cd=19&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca
http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache...g"+"brother+sister"&cd=11&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca
http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache...ng"+"brother+sister"&cd=9&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca
http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache...nt-offspring+sibling&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca
http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache...nt-offspring+sibling&cd=9&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca
http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache...ng"+"brother+sister"&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca

Catch me when I'm not making dinner and I can discuss this more if desired, but cranky hungry kids get priority right now

Pat

 

[patandchickens]

Quote:
Sorry, but this confuses a single gene with the organism, and does not apply to the question of the *overall* result of matings, as opposed to just looking at single-gene single-trait results.

Also, recessive is not synonymous with unwanted, lots of recessively-controlled traits are DESIRED -- a serious breeder usually *wants* to find out which animals are hiding which recessives, so you can breed the ones w/ the desirable ones and cull the ones w/undesirable ones. Especially for polygenic rather than mendelian traits.

Pat

 

[Poulets De Cajun]

THIS thread has me glued to the screen! I can't wait to hear more.

 

[patandchickens]

I have put scalloped potatoes and ham into the oven and have a few minutes free, so:

The degree of inbreeding for a particular pairing (the inbreeding coefficient of that mating) represents the degree of shared genes by common descent. (You can ignore the 'by common descent' part of that phrase unless you are a geneticist or lawyer, but it does mean that inbreeding coefficient is not necessarily quite the same as % shared genes).

Think of it this way: half of your genes are from your mum, half from your dad, right? Same is true of your brother/sister.

If you were to compare a list of the genes (really should say "alleles" but I'll use the common usage) that you carry vs a list of the genes that your dad carries, half of the genes you have will be present on your dad's list.

If you were to compare a list of the genes that you carry vs a list of the genes that your sibling carries, it's the same -- half the genes that you have, your sibling has also. It'll just be different entries in the list that are shared (as compared to the particular ones shared in the previous example).

(The reason the inbreeding coefficient = 0.25 for both matings whereas my conversational description involves one half is: math <g>. If you like sigmas and n's and exponents, you can look it up

)

It gets more complicated once you get past the first generation because the parents of subsequent generations are themselves somewhat inbred (share some genes by common descent).

One really really big advantage of parent-offspring matings In Real Life Animal Breeding, as compared to sib-sib breedings, is that the parent has had time to a) be carefully selected on the basis of traits shown as a mature individual, and b) be progeny-tested with individuals throwing suspicious/poor progeny being discarded from the breeding program. So one of the two parties is an older 'known quantity', whereas in sib-sib matings that is generally not the case. There can be other considerations as well.

I don't know if that helps any?

Pat, heading back to the kitchen

 

[ruthiesue]

This is getting better and better! Just like being back in college! I love it and keep going, guys. I was worried that all our babies would be more like:
AB mates with hen, CD = AC, AD, BC, and BD
AB then mates with all the little guys = AA, AC, BA, BC and on and on.

That sounds pretty good until maybe you get down the line and end up with AB again! HAHA Would that be like a clone? lol only kidding.

What is interesting, however, is that we are getting some white feathers on the sides of the roosters and lots of interesting color on the hens. Sort of like racing stripes!
Thanks again everyone!
Ruthiesue