Breeding Buff Leghorns

[Buff Leghorn]

Hi All

Well i got a couple of pictures of a couple of the adult birds today the other were to busy of scratching under the trees....

Ok all these birds are looking a little rough getting towards the end of our summer ....
First pic is of the rooster that had thrown the dark cockerals ....

this pic is of a young hen i have 2 of these this iis the better of the 2 the other looks the same but has a little peppering in her tail these are what the light cockerals are out of by a different roo...

The hen on the left is is out of the group that the darker cockerals are out of by the above roo the one on the right is the above hen....

This is a pic of the cockeral that i used with the first hen to get the lighter looking cockerals and the pullet in the other pictures. But i lost him so i only have young by him now.

I hope that helps paint a better picture as what the young birds came from and what i have to work with all the adult birds have been free ranging for the last 2 months in full sun so colour is a little lighter then what it is when first moulted .....

cheers shane

 

[danhonour]

Shane,Thanks for the pictures,it helps to see what you have to work with.These birds look more along better buff color lines.Since you have variation,there is less need for other bloodlines.You can work with the ones you have.I would make heavy use of the lighter birds,however be sure and use some of the best dark ones also.Since they all run towards the darker side,now is the time they will blend ,rather than later on when the shades of color are farther apart.It is good to keep a few of the dark ones as they are a reserve of color and are the ones that have the undercolor and feather quill color.Color breeds lighter,a tiny bit each generation,unless you mate to prevent loss of color.

I have found that chick color is somewhat connected with adult color.Red or very dark buff chicks will end up dark buff,medium buff chicks,medium shade adults and light pale chicks are more lemon buff as adults.Those with faint white or brown back stripes are usually poor colored and may indicate wild type / duckwing ancestry,or dominant white

Your birds look to have good breasts,good wing carriage,good heads,along with size and station.If they are decent layer of large eggs,with vigor;you have a good base to build on.

Dan Honour

 

[poultch]

these are great tips, thank you Dan, Birch Run Farm and Cochinman! and thanks Shane for starting the thread and letting others participate.

thanks for the pics they are a very good visual goal/ideal bird to aim for, there is a tendency to breed a darker buff in Aus and NZ.

I have 2 questions:
what would be the the lesser of 2 evils in pullets; white underfluff (under a superfically even coloured, nice buff bird) or smokey/underfluff at the base of tail/lower back feathers.

also, if there is a noticable white, columbian type marking in cockerals and pullets ie like a Buff sussex but instead of black markings white markings laced with ground colour (buff) and this extends to a paler underside in primary flight feathers and paler tail feathers edged in buff

are these types of birds useless in a breeding programme or will it depend on the pairings made, and what type would be bestmated to what

I have:
1 nicely coloured very young pullet (unceratin of earlobe quality yet)
2 cockerals nicely coloured very young (unceratin of earlobe quality yet) and still could develop peppering in tail
1 nicely coloured very young pullet (unceratin of earlobe quality yet) but has a little peppering in tail only

2-3 nice older nice typed pullets with even superficial feather colour but have peppering in tail and have darker underfluff
4-5 nice older nice typed pullets with even superficial feather colour but paler undercolour and have the above mentioned colombian type markings

1 older nice typed cockeral with even superficial feather colour but paler undercolour and have colombian type markings, but has a nice stance and earlobe

i dont want concentrate solely on colour and loose focus on other leghorn defining characteristics and would be prepared to work with the sub optimal coloured individuals if were to gain other qualities that the best coloured individuals may lack?

thanks any advice in advance

cheers

 

[Buff Leghorn]

Thanks everyone for giving so much advice it really helps...

I know if i didn't have this advice it would take me another 4 or 5 years to get it right after mistakes of breding the wrong birds together...
At least this way i have in my head the right way to go with this breeding and just need to see what they produce now...
Can't wait till next month and it cools down a little to trial some of these matings and see what i get been cleaning the incubator up and getting it ready for a long season of hatching.

Poultch I hope this topic his helping you as much as me and any one else that is interested in breeding buffs.... pictures to me really help as i am a visual kind of person if i see it i understand it better and thats why i like other people joining in and posting pic's of there birds...
You don't have to agree with every thing that is said but you can take the parts that help you the most and put them into practise and really have Danhonour, Birch Run Farms and Cochinman2005 it will just make it so much easier in the long run...
So THANKS very much guys

Cochinman 2005 I had a look at your website today and your birds are looking awesome but most of all i'm jealous of the pens you have they look great and if and when i get my own place your pens will be something i'll look at building they are great ...
I bet your birds hate leaving your place....

cheers and thanks shane

 

[poultch]

thanks all

definately learning heaps

here is a pic of a columbian marked type young Cockeral described above

here is a smokey undercolour pullet

probably the best of the columbian typed pullets (the least amount of white in tail, but still in undercolour and primarys)

probably my only pullet with good undercolour but has a little pepper in tail

hope these pics help the descriptions above

cheers

 

[Buff Leghorn]

Hi Poultch

I'm goin to have a stab at this but take no notice of it wait until the other guys comment on it .....

I would think your pullets that have the white in them i wouldn't put them with the cockeral shown as it will just produce more of the same if not more white...

i would think the pullet with the black under colour will produce you buff birds with black in them ( tails )

If you have another cockeral with out the white i would use him as i think a cockeral with white in him would be worse then having black in him and may produce washed out birds ......

But i'm only guessing here so please take no notice of it wait for the real breeders.

Also your birds look to be very young they might look different in another month.

Do you have pic's of your adult birds .....

I think you have the opposite to me mine are to dark and maybe yours are on the lighter side of light .

Your pictures helped me well done ..

Had another look at your cockeral and i think he would be ok with your better pullet with the peppering in her tail


I'm goin to go

now and wait to see what everyone else has to say ....

cheers shane

 

[poultch]

Cheers Shane

here are a couple of pics i tried to post earlier on and now know how to properly

they were my first draft of culls/surplus

these are from eggs purchased in and were on the whole very washed out and more than half had green legs

these are fairly representative of what i have been getting this year

so i have been getting the colour
sorry i dont have pics of the parent hens and roo anymore as after I had 100+egg in the incubator i thought i should get something to choose from....
but my Roo was a dead ringer for your darker fella but my guy didn't have the same quality headgear as yours and but he did have real strong colour to his legs and the hens were like yours but paler and no peppering, and one hen had a pinched tail

your right there is definately dom white in there as can see it leaking,
the young fella i have pictured is probably one of two out of all the this year that is showing no peppering and buff undercolour, but he has that slight Columbian effect in his hackles - best of a bad bunch

glad to hear anyones thoughts, cirtiques, and advice
cheers

 

[Birch Run Farm]

Quote:
Keep in mind I am a beginner too with buff color and leghorns but I like your last pullet in this series of photos.

Too bad we can't ship eggs easily back to you both!

 

[danhonour]

An interesting group.Some of these birds look useful as breeders,especially those with pepper. Buff is generally on the wheaton allele and so creamy even chicks and mature stock that lack hackle markings.I expect something else is going on here.Columbian with dominant white maybe. For advice I would avoid using those with white hackle markings and avoid using those with much white in the wing. If you have to use any with white,confine it to the undercolor and tail.In these sections too,try to reduce the white as you want solid buff.With black or slate you can treat it similar to white,it is not as bad as white,but almost.I do not like to see slate undercolor or black feather markings on the females back. White in the surface color is not good and some of these look white in breast,and almost pile colored.

Buff Leghorn males are the longest tailed buff breed and that is where many off colored feathers are seen.If you have mature males with good solid buff tails they are quality birds worth using in breeding.Females with buff undercolor and quills are also prized. Dan Honour

 

[poultch]

thank you everyone for the replies, and thanks Shane for allowing me to somewhat hijak your thread

definately much food for thought and will re read much of the earlier posts aswell again and probably again.

i was definately on the right track, but probably wasn't so aware of the light undercolour no, no

some of my chicks have at least one wildtype allele and showed the chick down wildstripe, (these ones were the ones that yurned out to have the dark buff colour and slate undercolour) this didn't shock me as i knew the roo i introduced had brown leghorn a few generations back. but this buff genotype is making me scratch my head, with the Co, Db, Mh, ew, e+, dom white and dun interactions. but will def pay attention next year in chick down and be doing a bit of toe punch combinations

but think i have something to work with and will post pics in a couple months time when the 5 or so "chosen ones' have grown out

cheers
and thanks again