breeding chocolate and lavender

[rom1136]

I read in another thread that chocolate should not be bred to lavender. the genetics calculator says breeding a choc roo over a lav hen gives you sex linked chicks. would the hens not be considered chocolate? i've just hatched my first chicks breeding this way and the calculator was right for us. unless these "choc" hens have lavender mixed in when they feather out.

anyway, i am just confused why someone in another thread said the chicks wouldn't be considered chocolate.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Sometimes it’s hard to know what people mean when they say certain things. If you could provide a link maybe I could read it in context and get an idea.

Lavender is a recessive gene and is not needed to make a sex link with chocolate. The underlying color to lavender is black, which is really what you need.

The pullets’ color will be chocolate, which she got from her father. When you mix colors you sometimes get leakage, which is where some off-color leaks through a few feathers when they feather out, but that’s just speculation in my part. Even if I read it in context I might not know what they meant.

 

[Wappoke]

I read in another thread that chocolate should not be bred to lavender. the genetics calculator says breeding a choc roo over a lav hen gives you sex linked chicks. would the hens not be considered chocolate? i've just hatched my first chicks breeding this way and the calculator was right for us. unless these "choc" hens have lavender mixed in when they feather out.

anyway, i am just confused why someone in another thread said the chicks wouldn't be considered chocolate.

As was indicated by ridgerunner, the lavender gene is a recessive diluting gene. Two of these genes dilute a self black (totally black plumage) to a light gray or self blue plumage. Self blue (lavender) chickens are black under the lavender color.

If a person crosses a self black chicken and a lavender chicken all the offspring will be black. The offspring do not carry two lavender genes (they only carry one) therefore they are black in color. The non-lavender gene (allele) they inherited from the black chicken cancels out the ability of the lavender gene to dilute the black to blue.

If you cross a lavender hen with a chocolate roo, the offspring will only carry one lavender gene that they received from their mother and a non-lavender gene (allele) they inherited from the father. This allows for the male offspring in the chocolate roo x lavender hen cross to be black. None of the offspring will be lavender because every offspring will only carry one lavender gene.

The chocolate gene is also a diluting gene that dilutes black to a chocolate color. It is also a recessive gene but it is linked to the Z sex chromosome of a chicken. Females only have one Z chromosome and males have two Z chromosomes. Males must inherit a Z chromosome from the mother and a Z chromosome from the father therefore they have two Z chromosomes. Females only need one Z chromosome that they inherit from the father. The female inherits a W chromosome from their mother. The chocolate gene is not linked to the W chromosome.

chocolate male= ZZ with two chocolate genes ( one gene on each Z chromosome)
black plumage male offspring = ZZ with one chocolate gene and a non-chocolate gene (allele)(the nonchocolate gene cancels out the chocolate gene)

black female = Zw only one non-chocolate gene (allele)on the Z chromosome
chocolate female offspring = Zw with a chocolate gene on the Z chromosome

When you cross the chocolate rooster with a lavender hen, the female offspring will be chocolate (they inherited one chocolate gene from the roo) the male offspring will be black. The males can not be chocolate because they inherited a non-chocolate gene (allele)( in this case black) from the mother. None of the offspring have two lavender genes so none are lavender.







.

 

[rom1136]

Thank you both for your comprehensive replies! thats exactly what i needed. u have articulated something i have just basic understanding of. i'll include the link that has sparked my question. i am sure the misunderstanding is mine as the poster seems to be a long time and educated breeder. thanks for taking the time to clear this up for me. my concern is that i would have these "split" chicks and not be honest for calling them chocolate. our lavender hen is big and beautiful and i dont yet have a black hen, so i was hoping this would inprove my hen type.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/437869/8-chocolate-lavender-orpington-eggs/10#post_5446707

https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/419930/chocolate-orpingtons/280#post_16674876

God Bless!

 

[Ridgerunner]

I think I understand now. In appearance your hens will be chocolate. They will have the chocolate gene and will be based on black.

But I think the objection to calling them Chocolate Orpingtons is that they will not breed true if you try to cross them with their offspring or if you inbreed the offspring. They have one copy of the recessive Lavender gene and will pass that down to some of their offspring. Chocolate is also a recessive gene. In future generations you will get some black chickens, some chocolate, and some lavender. You would not have this problem if you had used a black rooster instead of lavender.

Maybe Wappoke knows, I don’t, what will happen to the offspring that wind up both pure for chocolate and pure for lavender. They are both modifiers of black but I don’t know how they will look together. According to the calculator it looks like lavender trumps chocolate but I’m not sure that will actually happen. It could easily turn out to be a different shade than either.

 

[rom1136]

I see and that does make sense. In light of that auction though what was sold would not be getting inbred or inline breeding. So perhaps breeding this combo makes the offspring susceptible to showing other recessive traits?

 

[Backyardbetty]

As was indicated by ridgerunner, the lavender gene is a recessive diluting gene. Two of these genes dilute a self black (totally black plumage) to a light gray or self blue plumage. Self blue (lavender) chickens are black under the lavender color.

If a person crosses a self black chicken and a lavender chicken all the offspring will be black. The offspring do not carry two lavender genes (they only carry one) therefore they are black in color. The non-lavender gene (allele) they inherited from the black chicken cancels out the ability of the lavender gene to dilute the black to blue.

If you cross a lavender hen with a chocolate roo, the offspring will only carry one lavender gene that they received from their mother and a non-lavender gene (allele) they inherited from the father. This allows for the male offspring in the chocolate roo x lavender hen cross to be black. None of the offspring will be lavender because every offspring will only carry one lavender gene.

The chocolate gene is also a diluting gene that dilutes black to a chocolate color. It is also a recessive gene but it is linked to the Z sex chromosome of a chicken. Females only have one Z chromosome and males have two Z chromosomes. Males must inherit a Z chromosome from the mother and a Z chromosome from the father therefore they have two Z chromosomes. Females only need one Z chromosome that they inherit from the father. The female inherits a W chromosome from their mother. The chocolate gene is not linked to the W chromosome.

chocolate male= ZZ with two chocolate genes ( one gene on each Z chromosome)
black plumage male offspring = ZZ with one chocolate gene and a non-chocolate gene (allele)(the nonchocolate gene cancels out the chocolate gene)

black female = Zw only one non-chocolate gene (allele)on the Z chromosome
chocolate female offspring = Zw with a chocolate gene on the Z chromosome

When you cross the chocolate rooster with a lavender hen, the female offspring will be chocolate (they inherited one chocolate gene from the roo) the male offspring will be black. The males can not be chocolate because they inherited a non-chocolate gene (allele)( in this case black) from the mother. None of the offspring have two lavender genes so none are lavender.







.

So what if lavender roo over a chocolate laced hen ? What would i get lol

 

[Finnie]

All the chicks will be black. They will all be split to lavender. The males will be split to chocolate.

I do not know how the lacing will turn out. Maybe all the chicks will be laced, but not quite correctly? Someone who knows how lacing works will have to come and address that part.

 

[Finnie]

So what if lavender roo over a chocolate laced hen ? What would i get lol

Forgot the quote

 

[Backyardbetty]

All the chicks will be black. They will all be split to lavender. The males will be split to chocolate.

I do not know how the lacing will turn out. Maybe all the chicks will be laced, but not quite correctly? Someone who knows how lacing works will have to come and address that part.

So im rescuing these 2 roo’s the matts of lice or mite eggs on the poor guys (or so it looks like egg wads) lemme tell ya but thise are my hens and im hoping to breed them between these 2 boys once they are bug free