Breeding choice: WWYD: in line or in bred?

[rivkas]

I have 2 males and 1 female. we're going to put the female in a dog house so she can have a nesting box to herself and go broody in safety. she'll have a run and 1 male in there with her. Due to space constraints, we can't probably let all three be together, as they have been

So question: which male should get the honors of bunking with her?
She's a lavendar pied hen (so she has pearling). She's on the left in the photo.
Her father: he's pearl gray pied (but he threw lots of colors last year: lavendar, slate, purple or violet, white, both pieds and solids). No pic of him, he's just normal looking
Her brother (or cousin?): he's slate pied (so no pearling). He's on the right in the photo.
I'd like to breed for hardiness and colors. Would her father have more variety of colors possible or her brother? Would there be more risk of genetic issues with her father or her brother?
I am over thinking this? Yes Is this a terrible conversation to have about inbreeding? yes! It just sounds so bad!
Thanks in advance for your opinions!
(And i've got 18+ incubating in a sportsman cabinet also, beside just gambling on her going broody and the keets surviving the dew! we won't know or care who's the father with these...we've lost 4 half or full grown guineas in just 1 year so I need as many keets as possible to live! We lost the two other keets pictured and the 2 full grown mothers!)

 

[rivkas]

Actually I think the daddy is the one pictured in my profile pic.... maybe.

 

[R2elk]

I have 2 males and 1 female. we're going to put the female in a dog house so she can have a nesting box to herself and go broody in safety. she'll have a run and 1 male in there with her. Due to space constraints, we can't probably let all three be together, as they have been

So question: which male should get the honors of bunking with her?
She's a lavendar pied hen (so she has pearling). She's on the left in the photo.
Her father: he's pearl gray pied (but he threw lots of colors last year: lavendar, slate, purple or violet, white, both pieds and solids). No pic of him, he's just normal looking
Her brother (or cousin?): he's slate pied (so no pearling). He's on the right in the photo.
I'd like to breed for hardiness and colors. Would her father have more variety of colors possible or her brother? Would there be more risk of genetic issues with her father or her brother?
I am over thinking this? Yes Is this a terrible conversation to have about inbreeding? yes! It just sounds so bad!
Thanks in advance for your opinions!
(And i've got 18+ incubating in a sportsman cabinet also, beside just gambling on her going broody and the keets surviving the dew! we won't know or care who's the father with these...we've lost 4 half or full grown guineas in just 1 year so I need as many keets as possible to live! We lost the two other keets pictured and the 2 full grown mothers!)

Breeding her back to her father is called line breeding and is a common method of breeding in use.

Because both are pied, the offspring should be approximately 25% solid colors, 50% pied and 25% white.

Because it is known that the father has a recessive non-dotting gene, it is quite possible that she may also have a recessive non-dotting gene. Both obviously have the dominant dotting gene so if she also has the recessive non-dotting gene, the offspring should be 25% with two dominant dotting genes, 50% with one of each gene and 25% with two recessive non-dotting genes. Visibly that would mean 75% exhibiting full dotting and 25% not dotted. If all the offspring are full dotted, then she does not have the recessive non-dotting gene.

She obviously has the recessive blue gene and her father obviously has only one of the dominant pearl gene.

Sorry but I don't know how a mating with the cousin/brother would turn out nor the various colors possible through either breeding.

Here is a link to some help in trying to figure out guinea color and dotting possibilities.

http://www.guineafowl.com/fritsfarm/guineas/genetics/

 

[rivkas]

Thanks! I've been to that site before but you're much more concise! I guess I may have to just choose randomly. Is there a time period with guineas like there is for chickens where the hen was previously exposed to a different male and she's still covered by him as well? Like 2 weeks or something for chickens, I can't remember?

 

[rivkas]

So as per: http://guineafowl.international/articles/genetics.php ...

If I had a pair of pearl greys throwing lots of colors and pearl/non pearl varieties, they must've had hidden recessive genetics... So if what we think we understand about the genes is true, then it's likely that the father is GlSn or GlSS (if the latter, the mother was GlSn). The daughter is llSS or llSn (or llSs?), I'd have greys and blue, pearled and possibly solid, correct?
If I gamble that the brother/cousin is blue based (not buff or brown, no one really knows with slate?), he'd be llnn. A mix of them would be all blue based, correct?
If I don't see any brown or buffs this year, could I guess that none of the these birds have that recessive? Or would it take more breeding to find out?

So if I want more variety of colors then back to father, am i right? And if I want to hone in on blues or gamble for buffs or browns, then the brother cousin? Which way would make more solid whites? Any guesses?

 

[R2elk]

Thanks! I've been to that site before but you're much more concise! I guess I may have to just choose randomly. Is there a time period with guineas like there is for chickens where the hen was previously exposed to a different male and she's still covered by him as well? Like 2 weeks or something for chickens, I can't remember?

Guineas like chickens and turkeys can retain the sperm of the mate for likely about a 2 week period.

 

[R2elk]

So as per: http://guineafowl.international/articles/genetics.php ...

If I had a pair of pearl greys throwing lots of colors and pearl/non pearl varieties, they must've had hidden recessive genetics... So if what we think we understand about the genes is true, then it's likely that the father is GlSn or GlSS (if the latter, the mother was GlSn). The daughter is llSS or llSn (or llSs?), I'd have greys and blue, pearled and possibly solid, correct?
If I gamble that the brother/cousin is blue based (not buff or brown, no one really knows with slate?), he'd be llnn. A mix of them would be all blue based, correct?
If I don't see any brown or buffs this year, could I guess that none of the these birds have that recessive? Or would it take more breeding to find out?

So if I want more variety of colors then back to father, am i right? And if I want to hone in on blues or gamble for buffs or browns, then the brother cousin? Which way would make more solid whites? Any guesses?

Now you are making my head hurt. I have a tough enough time dealing with my blue based guineas.

If you don't see any brown or buffs this year it may only mean that you just haven't bred the right combination of birds together.

The only one that I know that is really straight forward is white. The gene for white is located in a different site than the genes for the other colors. If a guinea receives 2 white genes, it will be white. Two white guineas mated to each other will only produce white guineas. If a guinea receives only one white gene from its parents, it will be a pied guinea. One white guinea mated to any non white or non pied guinea will produce only pied guineas.

A pied guinea will have only one white gene. Two pied guineas mated together will produce approximately 25% white guineas since theoretically 1/4 of the offspring will receive one white gene from each parent. They will also produce 50% pied guineas with each of them receiving a white gene from one of their parents and a not white gene from one of their parents. The final 25% will be solid colored guineas with none of those receiving a white gene from either parent.

Since the hen in question is pied she has one white gene. Both males in question are pied so they each have only one white gene. As far as producing white guineas from the breeding, either pairing should produce 25% white guineas.

A breeding to the pied pearl father will undoubtedly produce some pearl colored guineas. A breeding to the pied slate should not produce any pearl guineas. What other colors are produced will depend on all the hidden color genes.

If you want blues, I would just purchase unrelated guineas that are blue based such as coral blues, powder blues or sky blues.

Good luck. With all the colors already produced by the parent stock you could get some interesting results.

 

[rivkas]

Since the hen in question is pied she has one white gene. Both males in question are pied so they each have only one white gene. As far as producing white guineas from the breeding, either pairing should produce 25% white guineas.

A breeding to the pied pearl father will undoubtedly produce some pearl colored guineas. A breeding to the pied slate should not produce any pearl guineas. What other colors are produced will depend on all the hidden color genes.

If you want blues, I would just purchase unrelated guineas that are blue based such as coral blues, powder blues or sky blues.

Good luck. With all the colors already produced by the parent stock you could get some interesting results.

Duh that makes sense that either way would be 25% white.

and I was afraid buying them would be the easy way... I'm already over budget on new stock this year, I'm going to get some swedish flower hens (I saw you have those as well!)

I'm hoping that I get lots of keets and lots of variety since we're just going with what we can incubate this year, plus if she'll be a good mom and get a nice bunch herself.

 

[R2elk]

Duh that makes sense that either way would be 25% white.

and I was afraid buying them would be the easy way... I'm already over budget on new stock this year, I'm going to get some swedish flower hens (I saw you have those as well!)

I'm hoping that I get lots of keets and lots of variety since we're just going with what we can incubate this year, plus if she'll be a good mom and get a nice bunch herself.

Lesson learned from the Swedish Flower Hens, whatever you pay for chicks it will be cheaper than buying shipped hatching eggs.

At some point you are going to want to bring in some unrelated guineas. It is not necessary that you do so this year. When you do bring in new stock, the thing to remember is that the Guinea Farm is the main supplier for places like Stromberg's and McMurrays's. Ralph Winter of the Guinea Farm is a good person to deal with and has more colors available than anyone else.

Good luck with you projects.

 

[rivkas]

Lesson learned from the Swedish Flower Hens, whatever you pay for chicks it will be cheaper than buying shipped hatching eggs.

At some point you are going to want to bring in some unrelated guineas. It is not necessary that you do so this year. When you do bring in new stock, the thing to remember is that the Guinea Farm is the main supplier for places like Stromberg's and McMurrays's. Ralph Winter of the Guinea Farm is a good person to deal with and has more colors available than anyone else.

Good luck with you projects.

I'm paying $10 per. Seemed fair. But what do i know

Good to know on guinea farm. I got mine local and probably will next time too unless i'm "needing" more colors