Breeding Delawares to the Standard of Perfection

[capayvalleychick]

I wish that I could find more history on this breed, from Delaware breeders with experience.

From what I have read, the slow feathering gene is needed in order to get straight, clean barring.

I've also read that the Delaware is supposed to be a fast maturing bird.

So, how do you get correct barring AND fast maturity in the same bird ???

The breed was originally a production broiler. Why would producers of a strictly utility fowl choose such a difficult color pattern?

Who were the breeders who got the Delaware admitted to the APA? Maybe they were the ones who created the Delaware pattern?

I have so many questions about this breed. There is so little information available.

 

[newmanmichael]

My theory has been that with quality the bird is taking all available and putting it to growth of frame . But what they say may be it . I don't really know just guessing.

Makes sense to me! I'd rather much have a slow feathering bird with a better frame. The cuckoo marans breeder said the slow growing tail was preferred as it keeps white feathers from coming in.

 

[finnfur]

I wish that I could find more history on this breed, from Delaware breeders with experience.

From what I have read, the slow feathering gene is needed in order to get straight, clean barring.

I've also read that the Delaware is supposed to be a fast maturing bird.

So, how do you get correct barring AND fast maturity in the same bird ???

The breed was originally a production broiler. Why would producers of a strictly utility fowl choose such a difficult color pattern?

Who were the breeders who got the Delaware admitted to the APA? Maybe they were the ones who created the Delaware pattern?

I have so many questions about this breed. There is so little information available.

I think at the creation of the breed feathering was less of a issue because George Ellis was looking for "The" meat bird of the day and they would be housed in large production chicken houses .
He was looking for the white meat bird with no black pin feathers for the table. Then the acceptable pattern was set by the APA Breeders. Don't know if you have seen this but here is a write up by Mr Hoffman that went to work for George out of college - its interesting.
http://www.feathersite.com/Poultry/CGD/Dels/Hoffmann.html

 

[gjensen]

I wish that I could find more history on this breed, from Delaware breeders with experience.

From what I have read, the slow feathering gene is needed in order to get straight, clean barring.

I've also read that the Delaware is supposed to be a fast maturing bird.

So, how do you get correct barring AND fast maturity in the same bird ???

The breed was originally a production broiler. Why would producers of a strictly utility fowl choose such a difficult color pattern?

Who were the breeders who got the Delaware admitted to the APA? Maybe they were the ones who created the Delaware pattern?

I have so many questions about this breed. There is so little information available.

I am going to share my opinions and hope that they are welcome.

There does not seam to be much history with this breed. They never seamed to have caught on in the exhibition circle.

The slow feathering gene is also about the narrow barring that we prefer. The English have Barred Rocks that are not as slow to feather or mature. The barring looks pretty clean in some lines, but not nearly as narrow.

The Delaware like the New Hampshire, should be a fast maturing breed. It is a defining characteristic of both breeds. The Delaware was more New Hampshire than Rock. "Economic Qualities" mentions them having well developed egg and meat characteristics.

I do not believe that slow feathering is necessarily linked to slow maturity. I believe it is often linked, but not out of necessity.

EB Thompson mentioned in several places that his males were not slow to mature. He expected the males to be ready to evaluate and show by 28 wks. That is fully matured. He claimed his pullets came into lay by 24 wks. He even cautioned against using slow maturing males.

The Delaware pattern and color, originally, was by chance. It was decided to try to continue to develop the line. They wanted to use it as a male line, to replace the Barred Rock and mate them directly over the New Hampshire which produces all silver offspring. Essentially silver New Hampshires. It was more about white feathers with no dark pin feathers than anything else. The decision to make it a breed seamed to come some time afterwards.

It could be argued that the Delaware should be quick to feather out. I think that they should. Keeping in mind that genetically they were mostly NH. A faster feathering bird devotes less energy into staying warm, and instead uses it for growth.
On the other hand some could argue that it would be an improvement, concerning the barring. I think both at this point is subject to opinion.

With the strain that you guys have and as good looking as they are, I would continue to develop the strengths. I would choose from faster maturing birds, and pullets with earlier point of lay. Then large eggs. That would be in keeping with the breed. Otherwise I would continue to develop the type and color.
I believe the strength of a breed as a whole could be found in a variety of strains with a variety of strengths. Especially with the rare breeds.
The breed lacked more than anything, good type and color. This strain has it in it. This strain has a lot to offer, and may be the largest contribution that the breed has had since early on. They are very nice birds. They have a lot going for them.

Mastering the color would be the hard part. I would stay away from smutty birds, but I would keep a reserve of color. Balancing the black, will be challenging. The Barring does not help achieve nicely marked females, but you guys are producing some.
I know it is build the barn before you paint it, but do not let the barn paint itself. Otherwise it could as long to repaint it as it was to build it to begin with.

I think the purely Plymouth Rock type is something to guard against. Delaware are as much New Hampshire than Rock. When you read the Standard for type they are very similar to the New Hampshire. Maybe the tail just a tad lower, and just a bit longer bird. I picture the length in between a good Rock and a good New Hampshire. They are after all, a combination of the two.
One thing I have considered is the Standard weight. Being the same as the New Hampshire, and being a little longer, I do not picture them as wide as a good New Hampshire. They cannot be if they are longer, but the same weight.

Please do not take this as any declaration. These are only things I have considered concerning the breed. Opinions that I have developed. Thoughts I decided to share.
Anything I have said could be debated, and I keep an open mind on the subject. If circumstances were different, I would still have Delaware.

 

[finnfur]

I am going to share my opinions and hope that they are welcome.

There does not seam to be much history with this breed. They never seamed to have caught on in the exhibition circle.

The slow feathering gene is also about the narrow barring that we prefer. The English have Barred Rocks that are not as slow to feather or mature. The barring looks pretty clean in some lines, but not nearly as narrow.

The Delaware like the New Hampshire, should be a fast maturing breed. It is a defining characteristic of both breeds. The Delaware was more New Hampshire than Rock. "Economic Qualities" mentions them having well developed egg and meat characteristics.

I do not believe that slow feathering is necessarily linked to slow maturity. I believe it is often linked, but not out of necessity.

EB Thompson mentioned in several places that his males were not slow to mature. He expected the males to be ready to evaluate and show by 28 wks. That is fully matured. He claimed his pullets came into lay by 24 wks. He even cautioned against using slow maturing males.

The Delaware pattern and color, originally, was by chance. It was decided to try to continue to develop the line. They wanted to use it as a male line, to replace the Barred Rock and mate them directly over the New Hampshire which produces all silver offspring. Essentially silver New Hampshires. It was more about white feathers with no dark pin feathers than anything else. The decision to make it a breed seamed to come some time afterwards.

It could be argued that the Delaware should be quick to feather out. I think that they should. Keeping in mind that genetically they were mostly NH. A faster feathering bird devotes less energy into staying warm, and instead uses it for growth.
On the other hand some could argue that it would be an improvement, concerning the barring. I think both at this point is subject to opinion.

With the strain that you guys have and as good looking as they are, I would continue to develop the strengths. I would choose from faster maturing birds, and pullets with earlier point of lay. Then large eggs. That would be in keeping with the breed. Otherwise I would continue to develop the type and color.
I believe the strength of a breed as a whole could be found in a variety of strains with a variety of strengths. Especially with the rare breeds.
The breed lacked more than anything, good type and color. This strain has it in it. This strain has a lot to offer, and may be the largest contribution that the breed has had since early on. They are very nice birds. They have a lot going for them.

Mastering the color would be the hard part. I would stay away from smutty birds, but I would keep a reserve of color. Balancing the black, will be challenging. The Barring does not help achieve nicely marked females, but you guys are producing some.
I know it is build the barn before you paint it, but do not let the barn paint itself. Otherwise it could as long to repaint it as it was to build it to begin with.

I think the purely Plymouth Rock type is something to guard against. Delaware are as much New Hampshire than Rock. When you read the Standard for type they are very similar to the New Hampshire. Maybe the tail just a tad lower, and just a bit longer bird. I picture the length in between a good Rock and a good New Hampshire. They are after all, a combination of the two.
One thing I have considered is the Standard weight. Being the same as the New Hampshire, and being a little longer, I do not picture them as wide as a good New Hampshire. They cannot be if they are longer, but the same weight.

Please do not take this as any declaration. These are only things I have considered concerning the breed. Opinions that I have developed. Thoughts I decided to share.
Anything I have said could be debated, and I keep an open mind on the subject. If circumstances were different, I would still have Delaware.

and we always welcome good conversation - Thanks

 

[newmanmichael]

I think at the creation of the breed feathering was less of a issue because George Ellis was looking for "The" meat bird of the day and they would be housed in large production chicken houses .
He was looking for the white meat bird with no black pin feathers for the table. Then the acceptable pattern was set by the APA Breeders. Don't know if you have seen this but here is a write up by Mr Hoffman that went to work for George out of college - its interesting.
http://www.feathersite.com/Poultry/CGD/Dels/Hoffmann.html

Great article!

 

[newmanmichael]

I am going to share my opinions and hope that they are welcome.

There does not seam to be much history with this breed. They never seamed to have caught on in the exhibition circle.

The slow feathering gene is also about the narrow barring that we prefer. The English have Barred Rocks that are not as slow to feather or mature. The barring looks pretty clean in some lines, but not nearly as narrow.

The Delaware like the New Hampshire, should be a fast maturing breed. It is a defining characteristic of both breeds. The Delaware was more New Hampshire than Rock. "Economic Qualities" mentions them having well developed egg and meat characteristics.

I do not believe that slow feathering is necessarily linked to slow maturity. I believe it is often linked, but not out of necessity.

EB Thompson mentioned in several places that his males were not slow to mature. He expected the males to be ready to evaluate and show by 28 wks. That is fully matured. He claimed his pullets came into lay by 24 wks. He even cautioned against using slow maturing males.

The Delaware pattern and color, originally, was by chance. It was decided to try to continue to develop the line. They wanted to use it as a male line, to replace the Barred Rock and mate them directly over the New Hampshire which produces all silver offspring. Essentially silver New Hampshires. It was more about white feathers with no dark pin feathers than anything else. The decision to make it a breed seamed to come some time afterwards.

It could be argued that the Delaware should be quick to feather out. I think that they should. Keeping in mind that genetically they were mostly NH. A faster feathering bird devotes less energy into staying warm, and instead uses it for growth.
On the other hand some could argue that it would be an improvement, concerning the barring. I think both at this point is subject to opinion.

With the strain that you guys have and as good looking as they are, I would continue to develop the strengths. I would choose from faster maturing birds, and pullets with earlier point of lay. Then large eggs. That would be in keeping with the breed. Otherwise I would continue to develop the type and color.
I believe the strength of a breed as a whole could be found in a variety of strains with a variety of strengths. Especially with the rare breeds.
The breed lacked more than anything, good type and color. This strain has it in it. This strain has a lot to offer, and may be the largest contribution that the breed has had since early on. They are very nice birds. They have a lot going for them.

Mastering the color would be the hard part. I would stay away from smutty birds, but I would keep a reserve of color. Balancing the black, will be challenging. The Barring does not help achieve nicely marked females, but you guys are producing some.
I know it is build the barn before you paint it, but do not let the barn paint itself. Otherwise it could as long to repaint it as it was to build it to begin with.

I think the purely Plymouth Rock type is something to guard against. Delaware are as much New Hampshire than Rock. When you read the Standard for type they are very similar to the New Hampshire. Maybe the tail just a tad lower, and just a bit longer bird. I picture the length in between a good Rock and a good New Hampshire. They are after all, a combination of the two.
One thing I have considered is the Standard weight. Being the same as the New Hampshire, and being a little longer, I do not picture them as wide as a good New Hampshire. They cannot be if they are longer, but the same weight.

Please do not take this as any declaration. These are only things I have considered concerning the breed. Opinions that I have developed. Thoughts I decided to share.
Anything I have said could be debated, and I keep an open mind on the subject. If circumstances were different, I would still have Delaware.

Great thoughts on this. I'm actually taking my current line of Delawares and breeding a couple hens to a nice German New Hampshire. I'm hoping to get some nice tails into my Delawares this way. Not sure exactly what that will do to the color but I shall see!

 

[gjensen]

Great thoughts on this. I'm actually taking my current line of Delawares and breeding a couple hens to a nice German New Hampshire. I'm hoping to get some nice tails into my Delawares this way. Not sure exactly what that will do to the color but I shall see!

They will contribute nicely marked and formed tails. It should help with feather quality to. I can think of a lot of ways it might help. Of course, everything comes at a cost, and there is places that it will hurt.


Where it will hurt the color is brassiness and red bleed through. The second generation cross will be cleaner than the first, but will still be an issue. It is a persistent problem, and it is nearly impossible to get rid of it breeding silver to silver. An option is to use black, blue, or barred. In your case a Plymouth Rock would make the most sense.

 

[capayvalleychick]

Mastering the color would be the hard part. I would stay away from smutty birds, but I would keep a reserve of color. Balancing the black, will be challenging. The Barring does not help achieve nicely marked females, but you guys are producing some.

Define smutty. ?

My #1 male has excess barring. Almost all his offspring, the exception being pullets (I think) have the same barring on their back. I'm using #2 male now, who has less barring but also may have a tinge of brassiness. Is all yellowing brassiness? This is lighter than what I have seen before in other lines of Dels.

Great thoughts on this. I'm actually taking my current line of Delawares and breeding a couple hens to a nice German New Hampshire. I'm hoping to get some nice tails into my Delawares this way. Not sure exactly what that will do to the color but I shall see!

What are you trying to improve with the tail?

 

[gjensen]

Kim, I was referring more to under color more than the outer color. Of course it matters to, just not what I had in mind. Often it will go together.

The yellowing is brassiness, but I could not speak to the cause of that brassiness.