Breeding for PERSONALITY. AKA Hello SWEET ROO!

[aart]

Quote:
Ahh, I see.....wouldn't poulardizing be more invasive than caponizing?

 

[LindaB220]

I don’t' think I could have done it without actually seeing it done first. It is nerve wracking enough to do it while knowing what to do!
Is poulardizing done through the same type of incision?

Yes, you only have to do one side because they only have one ovary. And you snip about 1/2-1" of the tube the goes to the ovary. Quick and easy. Yes it is as invasive as caponizing but not worse. Just easier. I'll be processing the 8 hens by spring so I'll have a look around and see if it is something I can manage.

 

[LindaB220]

Ahh, I see.....wouldn't poulardizing be more invasive than caponizing?

About the same, but the idea of poulardizing is to do it young, about 1# and all the energy that would have gone into getting the body ready for eggs is sent directly into growing big. They are prized by some societies and bring top dollar. I don't care about that. I want to bring this skill back to the south. The meat is very tender

 

[enola]

We have a caponizing thread!!!  I am not sure on the [COLOR=333333]poulardizing, that is not something I have the need for, but it is interesting![/COLOR]

[COLOR=333333]I didn't want to make this about caponizing, but it is the way I handle the aggressive roo situation.  I keep the quaility roos with good personalities intact, and caponize the others for meat or pets.[/COLOR]

[COLOR=333333]It is not a viable option for most people though, so breeding is the best way to go.[/COLOR]

How old are these 'aggressive' roosters when you give up on them and caponize them?

 

[TaraBellaBirds]

I don't feel like I am giveing up on them at all. In fact I am giving them a much longer and more free life. The precedure can be done at any age once it is aparent that they are male, from 8 weeks on. Although the older the bird the more risk. I can't keep every roo I hatch.
Caponizing gives me the ability to extend the life of the roos and to not have the 'deadline' that seems to be the case with most meat birds. A capon can still be tender at a much older age without the influence of testosterone. I can leave them in with my free range flock without worry of fights or over-breeding. Also without the desire to crow, capons allow people in cities to have a beautiful rooster as a pet!
It's not for everyone, but I feel lucky to be able to learn a lost skill like this!

I dont' want to take away from the original intent of this thread. There is a great, informative, and supportive caponizing thread on BYC, if you are interested!

 

[MargaretYakoda]

Quote:
Originally Posted by enola


How old are these 'aggressive' roosters when you give up on them and caponize them?

I just want to step in and say it appears that some folks are skeptical about breeding gentler roosters. I don't know. Maybe they've got good points?
But there are also some excellent reasons to try this experiment, and, personally, I think those reasons outweigh the reasons against it.

This is an experiment. And I do think that for some breeds there has been selection for personality. The obvious one is fighting cocks. And, if it can be done in that direction, it's highly likely that we can learn how to select for gentler behavior also. Yes, how the birds are handled is part of the equation. But quality dog breeders pay attention to personality, and there's no reason why we shouldn't learn how to do that for chickens too.

As far as caponizing aggressive roosters, yes. It has been done, and it has helped. It's generally done when the cock is older and the behavior is a clear issue. There is a great thread here on BYC that discusses all things caponizing, and that would be an excellent place to learn more about your question. https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/675898/graphic-pics-of-my-day-learning-to-caponize

 

[lazy gardener]

Thank you Tara for trying to redirect this thread. It seems that it's not so easily directed. The title of this thread is: Breeding for PERSONALITY. AKA Hello SWEET ROO!

Caponizing is an entirely different subject as you so aptly pointed out, Tara. Caponizing was widely used in the chicken industry as is castration in the beef and other meat industry to direct the animal's energy to growing tasty meat instead of sexual maturity. The advent of the super heavy cross breeds in the chicken industry have made caponizing a lost art in the United States. But, there is a growing population of poultry keepers who see the advantage of renewing this technique as a (and I'm sticking my head in a noose here... so be it) good alternative to raise meat for the table while bypassing the high mortality rate and many maladies that can affect the CXR birds. Caponizing allows male chickens to be raised in a natural environment and keeps the entire flock free of the stress caused by "rooster drama". And obviously, the "chickens as pets" folks also are intrigued by the prospect of keeping a caponized rooster as a pet.

Now, back to the purpose of the thread: If you read the old timer's thread, there will be a number of folks who will tell you that they've bred the aggressiveness out of both their male and female chickens over time. Any rooster who is human aggressive goes in the stew pot. Any rooster who does not treat his ladies with the respect they deserve goes in the stew pot. Any rooster who is aggressive towards chicks goes in the stew pot. Any hen who goes broody and does not complete her mission... goes in the stew pot. Any hen who creates strife among her flock mates goes in the stew pot. See a pattern here? Now, choose your best rooster, and put him over your best hens. Continue to cull for behavior, and you will end up with a flock of birds who are not aggressive. Add to that, culling any birds without good body conformity, good laying, and good vigor, and over time, you will produce birds which excel in the back yard flock and outperform hatchery chicks.

 

[LindaB220]

Thank you Tara for trying to redirect this thread. It seems that it's not so easily directed. The title of this thread is: Breeding for PERSONALITY. AKA Hello SWEET ROO!

Caponizing is an entirely different subject as you so aptly pointed out, Tara. Caponizing was widely used in the chicken industry as is castration in the beef and other meat industry to direct the animal's energy to growing tasty meat instead of sexual maturity. The advent of the super heavy cross breeds in the chicken industry have made caponizing a lost art in the United States. But, there is a growing population of poultry keepers who see the advantage of renewing this technique as a (and I'm sticking my head in a noose here... so be it) good alternative to raise meat for the table while bypassing the high mortality rate and many maladies that can affect the CXR birds. Caponizing allows male chickens to be raised in a natural environment and keeps the entire flock free of the stress caused by "rooster drama". And obviously, the "chickens as pets" folks also are intrigued by the prospect of keeping a caponized rooster as a pet.

Now, back to the purpose of the thread: If you read the old timer's thread, there will be a number of folks who will tell you that they've bred the aggressiveness out of both their male and female chickens over time. Any rooster who is human aggressive goes in the stew pot. Any rooster who does not treat his ladies with the respect they deserve goes in the stew pot. Any rooster who is aggressive towards chicks goes in the stew pot. Any hen who goes broody and does not complete her mission... goes in the stew pot. Any hen who creates strife among her flock mates goes in the stew pot. See a pattern here? Now, choose your best rooster, and put him over your best hens. Continue to cull for behavior, and you will end up with a flock of birds who are not aggressive. Add to that, culling any birds without good body conformity, good laying, and good vigor, and over time, you will produce birds which excel in the back yard flock and outperform hatchery chicks.

Right up there with the great ones. and every word is true.

 

[enola]

I am all for breeding a rooster that is not aggressive. I have been doing my own little experiment with my Araucanas. And I fully agree with those of you who think removing aggressive hens from the flock is one step of the equation. Three years ago I was breeding my Araucana rooster (who I have owned now for 5 years) to a flock of Cuckoo Marans hens. I had a market for the resulting cockerels at the age of 6-8 months of age. I was finding that by 6 months of age some of them were getting aggressive to me. So, the next season I put the 2 hens that were making the flock miserable in a seperate breeding pen, marked their eggs, marked the cockerels when they hatched and raised them out. Sure enough, the cockerels that were hatched from those hens were the nasty ones. So, I no longer keep aggressive hens. I consider it a lesson learned! I personally don't think it takes many generations to reach the goal we will be striving for.

 

[LindaB220]

I am all for breeding a rooster that is not aggressive. I have been doing my own little experiment with my Araucanas. And I fully agree with those of you who think removing aggressive hens from the flock is one step of the equation. Three years ago I was breeding my Araucana rooster (who I have owned now for 5 years) to a flock of Cuckoo Marans hens. I had a market for the resulting cockerels at the age of 6-8 months of age. I was finding that by 6 months of age some of them were getting aggressive to me. So, the next season I put the 2 hens that were making the flock miserable in a seperate breeding pen, marked their eggs, marked the cockerels when they hatched and raised them out. Sure enough, the cockerels that were hatched from those hens were the nasty ones. So, I no longer keep aggressive hens. I consider it a lesson learned! I personally don't think it takes many generations to reach the goal we will be striving for.

Thanks Enola, great post. That is the way we learn. By other's experiences. This is very important.