Breeding for PERSONALITY. AKA Hello SWEET ROO!

[SharkmanDan]

I'd like to remind folks that this thread is to focus on breeding for personality. So, while I'm also curious as to the breed of SharkmanDan's stray, maybe that post can happen in a guess-this-breed thread? Thanks.

Which is why I didn't post anything like that here.

 

[MargaretYakoda]

LOL you are probably right about that. Just got swept away in a mystery! You got to love the stray chicken stories!

Maybe we can bring it back on topic. Would you bring a stray into your breeding program without knowing the background, just on the basis of personality? {I would have to really fall in love with said bird}

Personally, if I wasn't trying to stick with a particular breed's SOP, I would watch the bird for illness, and then behavior within the flock for a few months. And then yes, if the bird passed those tests, I'd go ahead and give him a trial.

 

[MargaretYakoda]

Which is why I didn't post anything like that here.

You are right. I missed the part where you were asking for advice. Please accept my apologies.

 

[MargaretYakoda]

The holidays are making us all a bit scatterbrained, but your reading skills are fine!!!!

It's not just the holidays for me.

 

[K Epp]

Interesting. Going to follow.

 

[centrarchid]

The "criteria" suggestion no one followed up on deals with what particular behaviors are to be watched for and how they might be weighted in your selection process. I have to breeding projects involving Dominiques. The first has pure American Dominiques where I have between 6 and 10 roosters aged more than 18 months and many more younger roosters until the late fall of each year. My criteria for selection has been for first growing seaon, rapid growth, sound body, and proper type. Then in the intervening time though 18 months I look for oveal vitality and watch closely for signs of aggression towards me. During the intervening time the roosters may or may not interact with females but they do not go to breeding pens. I have been watching closely for the more subtle signs of aggression that are vocal or related to posture. Once roosters are past 18 months the best get a shot at breeding pens. By this time they are calm and collected around hens and thus far no aggressive birds have gotten past earlier selection rounds. Then I look for fertility and docility around broods as rooster kept in close proximity to members of their harem through tending of young. Good roosters seem to raise more chicks than high strong roosters. I am also trying to track what a given hen produces with respect to roosters but hens must be three years old before entering the breeding population. Such hens remain in breeding population until they can not longer perform while roosters breed for at most three years before being retired. Most breed only one or two years. If see a hen that produces less than ideal rooster offspring based on any measure, then she will face retirement not matter how good she lays or her daughters perform.

I have a sequence where a given criteria is engaged.

I have another dominique related project that is forcing be to think about how many breeds could be attempted for selection by a given person. This all boils down to time, labor and feed.

 

[CrazyTalk]

The RIR breed is acceptable in either the single comb or the rose comb variety. The single comb was admitted to the SOP in 1904, one year earlier than the rose comb. Below is information from the 1998 SOP regarding the rose comb:

"The Rose Comb Rhode Island Red was admitted to the Standard in 1905, although some breeders acclaim it to be the original variety. The earlier Rhode Island Reds sported both the single and rose combs, some even having pea combs, due to their mixed ancestry and the fact of their being bred primarily for market purposes before they became a Standard breed." In the Shape description for the male, it states about the rose comb: "Rose; moderately large, firm on head; oval, free from hollow center, surface covered with small rounded points, terminating in a spike at the rear, the spike drooping slightly but not conforming too closely to the shape of head."

There are many parts of the country where the RC RIR is almost never seen, and with the popularity of the SC RIR, it is understandable why many people would assume that the SC is the only variety of RIR in the Standard. There is also a Rhode Island White, admitted in 1922, with the Standard being exactly the same as for the Red, except of course for color. It appears, although is somewhat open to interpretation based on how the write-up is organized, that the RIW is only acceptable with a rose comb.

Thanks - I wasn't aware. I've never seen one, and unfortunately the APA doesn't make their stuff real easily searchable - most of the places I checked don't mention it.




Centrarchid, I think all of us would like to eventually have a set of criteria like that at some point, but as early as most people are in the process, and as bad as most hatchery roosters are, I'm not sure it's needed yet - even just making the conscious decision that a rooster who attacks a human being goes in the pot makes a difference in a couple years.

 

[centrarchid]

Thanks - I wasn't aware. I've never seen one, and unfortunately the APA doesn't make their stuff real easily searchable - most of the places I checked don't mention it. 




Centrarchid, I think all of us would like to eventually have a set of criteria like that at some point, but as early as most people are in the process, and as bad as most hatchery roosters are, I'm not sure it's needed yet - even just making the conscious decision that a rooster who attacks a human being goes in the pot makes a difference in a couple years. 

That is where the issue of sustainability comes in. At some point more people will need to stop sourcing birds from hatcheries when birds they sell are prone to be aggressive. Next,the results of selection efforts must be passed on. My efforts will be worthless if birds die after leaving my hands. This will apply to all. That is where developing better trading networks can come into play. At one time is was easy to trade with like minded people in your area but these days they are either rare or communication networks are not established.


If you just pick roosters that are not aggressive but do not breed from them and pass offspring on, then well.........

 

[MargaretYakoda]

The "criteria" suggestion no one followed up on deals with what particular behaviors are to be watched for and how they might be weighted in your selection process. I have to breeding projects involving Dominiques. The first has pure American Dominiques where I have between 6 and 10 roosters aged more than 18 months and many more younger roosters until the late fall of each year. My criteria for selection has been for first growing seaon, rapid growth, sound body, and proper type. Then in the intervening time though 18 months I look for oveal vitality and watch closely for signs of aggression towards me. During the intervening time the roosters may or may not interact with females but they do not go to breeding pens. I have been watching closely for the more subtle signs of aggression that are vocal or related to posture. Once roosters are past 18 months the best get a shot at breeding pens. By this time they are calm and collected around hens and thus far no aggressive birds have gotten past earlier selection rounds. Then I look for fertility and docility around broods as rooster kept in close proximity to members of their harem through tending of young. Good roosters seem to raise more chicks than high strong roosters. I am also trying to track what a given hen produces with respect to roosters but hens must be three years old before entering the breeding population. Such hens remain in breeding population until they can not longer perform while roosters breed for at most three years before being retired. Most breed only one or two years. If see a hen that produces less than ideal rooster offspring based on any measure, then she will face retirement not matter how good she lays or her daughters perform.

I have a sequence where a given criteria is engaged.

I have another dominique related project that is forcing be to think about how many breeds could be attempted for selection by a given person. This all boils down to time, labor and feed.

I've been thinking about this for a bit. You're right, some kind of criteria needs to be assembled. It hasn't happened yet as this whole project is really just in the discussion stage. But yes, maybe it's time to move beyond discussion and into specifics.

Would anyone mind if I edited the first post in this thread with some specific criteria? I wouldn't be saying that the criteria are cast in stone. And I really would like to encourage as much participation as possible. So perhaps we'll have more than one set of criteria, depending on whether someone is simply going for a bird they can trust to turn their back on, or if they're actually looking for a lap rooster.

I'll start going through this thread and adding to the first post now. PLEASE DO suggest additions.
Thoughts?

 

[MargaretYakoda]

That is where the issue of sustainability comes in. At some point more people will need to stop sourcing birds from hatcheries when birds they sell are prone to be aggressive. Next,the results of selection efforts must be passed on. My efforts will be worthless if birds die after leaving my hands. This will apply to all. That is where developing better trading networks can come into play. At one time is was easy to trade with like minded people in your area but these days they are either rare or communication networks are not established.


If you just pick roosters that are not aggressive but do not breed from them and pass offspring on, then well.........

Good point about the hatchery birds.
I think a lot of newcomers go with hatcheries because they're not hooked into any kind of network at all. So, I'll add to the first post a suggestion that people who are interested in trying this project work on building connections with like-minded and preferably local chicken breeders. Starting with their state's BYC group, of course, but also networking with other groups. 4H, county extension offices, APA shows, etc.