BREEDING FOR PRODUCTION...EGGS AND OR MEAT.

[3riverschick]

@3riverschick I read through those threads mentioned some time ago. Was very interesting, was suprised to see Bob Blosl on here (now he's gone), I've read about his line and others before when I was looking at maybe getting some Dick Horstman rose comb RIRs for my father who had old farm rose comb RIRs for decades. Hasn't had any in 20yrs but looking to get chickens again seeing me and my brother with birds. Would like to suprise him someday with some real birds.
Looks like NYREDS pops in once in awhile, but hasn't posted since 2014. I pm'd him sometime back to see if he was in NY and if he sells, hasn't got back to me.
I've put it off this yr, maybe in the spring I'll hook up with someone with Bob's Mohawk line or maybe just get some hatching eggs from Horstman. Not looking for show birds for they will never be shown, just don't want junk.
I had a bunch of hatchery reds 13yrs ago now, while they laid more eggs than any chickens I've ever had the first yr and right through winter and through molt, they petered out after, and didn't make very good meat birds Much rather get him real reds like he had.

Well if you are going to get the breed, might as well et the best. It's a good thing to be a resource for the breed in case something happens to someone else's flock.
Best,
Karen

 

[Beer can]

Well if you are going to et the breed, might as well et the best. It's a good thing to be a resource for the breed in case something happens to someone else's flock.
Best,
Karen

Lol! Not sure if your being sarcastic, but I agree with if not. If we all did this we wouldn't be worrying about the existence of good pure breed chickens. I can't find his quote right off, Frank Reese, changed his website, but a good one I liked, went something like this; not his quote but what I remember from it, 'best thing we can do to get people into heritage chickens, is to get them eating them'.
I agree. And your right about saying we can be a resource in case....I've worried about AI, what would happen to these all if the govt came in and exterminated them....Some of these breeders have been going for many decades, hundred yrs.
I don't plan on getting rid of my white giants, biggest darn birds I've ever seen, and very tasty, lay great, not many into the whites.
I don't plan on showing, though there is a breeder near me of black and blue that does, has beautiful birds, just not what I'm into. I'll strive to bring these to as close to perfect as I can get, just have no interest in show, just want the best darn giants there is for me....
Dad didn't have hatchery reds, don't think he would be happy with them.. I grew up with RIRs, love them and praise them, but I like to be different....

 

[Beer can]

Non chicken related but I just made my first batch of pickled fish, never tried it before. 48hr in salt brine, 48hr in viniger brine, 2lbs of black crapie only made 3 pints. Did them up dilled, recipe following in seven days if they turn out as good as bought. Stuffs expensive, I got a few $$ into it for vinegar, salt, sugar, fish free, red onions and dill from the garden, jars we have. Let you all know how they turn out in seven days :-D

 

[Turk Raphael]

Non chicken related but I just made my first batch of pickled fish, never tried it before. 48hr in salt brine, 48hr in viniger brine, 2lbs of black crapie only made 3 pints. Did them up dilled, recipe following in seven days if they turn out as good as bought. Stuffs expensive, I got a few $$ into it for vinegar, salt, sugar, fish free, red onions and dill from the garden, jars we have. Let you all know how they turn out in seven days :-D

Another good thing about this thread, the subject doesn't have to be chicken related...in fact, most of my posts make little sense at all but I try to bring in something about country living, however so tangentially.

 

[Turk Raphael]

About 30 minutes long but very interesting to me. I'm thinking of getting into small time cattle farming again. Dad had a special strain of genetics in almost every beef he owned before he sold them off. They are so desirable, he just called one neighbor and dad named his price. They carried a lot of Beefmaster genetics.

Enjoy

Edited to add...perhaps some people will begin working on the production of chickens the same way but heck...the have!!!

 

[abbevilleoz]

Non chicken related but I just made my first batch of pickled fish, never tried it before. 48hr in salt brine, 48hr in viniger brine, 2lbs of black crapie only made 3 pints. Did them up dilled, recipe following in seven days if they turn out as good as bought. Stuffs expensive, I got a few $$ into it for vinegar, salt, sugar, fish free, red onions and dill from the garden, jars we have. Let you all know how they turn out in seven days :-D

Don't know if it's the same but "salt fish" was a treasure for old timers here in the south. A dear friend of mine would catch mullet and preserve them in salt, wish I had got the recipe from him. Ate 'em for breakfast.

 

[abbevilleoz]

Lol! Not sure if your being sarcastic, but I agree with if not. If we all did this we wouldn't be worrying about the existence of good pure breed chickens. I can't find his quote right off, Frank Reese, changed his website, but a good one I liked, went something like this; not his quote but what I remember from it, 'best thing we can do to get people into heritage chickens, is to get them eating them'.
I agree. And your right about saying we can be a resource in case....I've worried about AI, what would happen to these all if the govt came in and exterminated them....Some of these breeders have been going for many decades, hundred yrs.
I don't plan on getting rid of my white giants, biggest darn birds I've ever seen, and very tasty, lay great, not many into the whites.
I don't plan on showing, though there is a breeder near me of black and blue that does, has beautiful birds, just not what I'm into. I'll strive to bring these to as close to perfect as I can get, just have no interest in show, just want the best darn giants there is for me....
Dad didn't have hatchery reds, don't think he would be happy with them.. I grew up with RIRs, love them and praise them, but I like to be different....

There so many things we should be seriously pondering these days. Speaking of AI, a wild mallard was found in Alaska last month with the high strain I think. That area seems to be our vulnerable entry point from Asia. Population growth is the one factor that concerns me. How do we feed all these people? There's a good argument for cutting out mass meat production and using that grain to feed the world which could also lower greenhouse gases. I'm nowhere close to becoming a Vegan yet that's why I'm interested in becoming more self sustaining. Part of that definition for me is finding an excellent meat bird that I raise completely on our little acreage. I did find one small hatchery in Georgia that sells Red Ranger hatching eggs.

 

[bnjrob]

There so many things we should be seriously pondering these days. Speaking of AI, a wild mallard was found in Alaska last month with the high strain I think. That area seems to be our vulnerable entry point from Asia. Population growth is the one factor that concerns me. How do we feed all these people? There's a good argument for cutting out mass meat production and using that grain to feed the world which could also lower greenhouse gases. I'm nowhere close to becoming a Vegan yet that's why I'm interested in becoming more self sustaining. Part of that definition for me is finding an excellent meat bird that I raise completely on our little acreage. I did find one small hatchery in Georgia that sells Red Ranger hatching eggs.

There is more than enough food being produced to feed people. But capitalism drives innovation and growth and that drives greed which shows up in the form of crony capitalism. Greed is what causes people to get screwed and be without things like food. When I was a kid, I'd hear talk about how food would rot in cargo containers because countries would have a political agenda and didn't want the food to get into their country. That has not changed, it is just kept quiet. Our own country pays farmers NOT to grow crops. There are a bunch of convoluted rules that were made up following the Great Depression, as a means for the government to manipulate food production. The idea was to prevent another Depression by controlling the flow of food, and thus the cost of food, to keep the economy from tanking again. Just this year one cherry farmer was so upset because the gov't made them dump a good portion of their cherry crop on the ground to rot. They were not allowed to use it or give it away. In the last couple of years, huge apple crops up in WA/OR went to waste because of labor unrest and political agendas. There have been stories coming out of California in the last few years of farmers trying to get around the system because they were getting screwed and they were labeled as criminals by the govt. I've been researching the dairy industry lately, to try to learn how some dairy producers are getting screwed, while the Big Ag labels are making a fortune. I have been appalled at the amount of government manipulation that is involved in dairy prices and production. I'm amazed that there are even people still trying to produce milk for our country, considering the way that they get screwed so bad. In the last few years as I have been doing more research into how things work, the amount of government interference in the production of food has just been astounding to me. The government and Big Money truly own the food supply and people do not realize it. And when you own the food supply, you have the people enslaved and can do pretty much whatever you want with them. There is plenty of food available for all - don't let somebody tell you differently. But gov't agendas, and not just our gov't, play a huge part in what food is available and who it is available too.

This whole avian flu crap - it isn't a huge deal for us small flock owners if the gov't weren't involved. Because our birds are healthier, they have better immune systems and they can adapt to these avian flu viruses. Yes some will die, but there will be some living - because they do build antibodies to the virus and live and we saw it last year when they started killing small flocks where the virus was detected, yet the small flocks weren't dying off in mass numbers like the commercial birds were. The problem is the stranglehold that the commercial poultry industry has on things. Their birds are under constant stress from being crammed into buildings with very little room, layers are kept under lights to constantly lay more eggs. Those commercial birds can't build healthy immune systems to fight off even simple germs. So when an avian flu goes through a commercial facility, thousands upon thousands of birds keel over. Not only is there a loss of money involved in losing large numbers of commercial poultry, but if it went on too long, then there gets to be a food shortage - because most of the country's food supply has been so consolidated, with very few companies actually owning nearly every single food label in the country. So yes, the avian flu could cause a disruption in the food supply for millions of city people who want to buy the cheapest chicken possible. And of course the Big Poultry Labels aren't going to want to lose money by having their birds die off. Which is why the gov't is so intent on making ridiculous rules regarding poultry, to make it difficult for small flock owners to buy/sell/transport - to protect the interests of the commercial poultry producers. Because you can feed a lot of people with more sustainable birds and husbandry methods, but you can't make a huge profit unless people are willing to pay more money for the meat and eggs from sustainable flocks. And there again, greed in the form of crony capitalism, not true capitalism, rears its head and the govt will use *threat to the food supply* as their excuse for slaughtering small flocks and causing small flock owners problems.

 

[3riverschick]

Canadian Buckeye, sending you a PM right now.
Karen

 

[abbevilleoz]

There is more than enough food being produced to feed people.  But capitalism drives innovation and growth and that drives greed which shows up in the form of crony capitalism.  Greed is what causes people to get screwed and be without things like food.  When I was a kid, I'd hear talk about how food would rot in cargo containers because countries would have a political agenda and didn't want the food to get into their country.  That has not changed, it is just kept quiet.  Our own country pays farmers NOT to grow crops.  There are a bunch of convoluted rules that were made up following the Great Depression, as a means for the government to manipulate food production.  The idea was to prevent another Depression by controlling the flow of food, and thus the cost of food, to keep the economy from tanking again.  Just this year one cherry farmer was so upset because the gov't made them dump a good portion of their cherry crop on the ground to rot.  They were not allowed to use it or give it away. In the last couple of years, huge apple crops up in WA/OR went to waste because of labor unrest and political agendas.  There have been stories coming out of California in the last few years of farmers trying to get around the system because they were getting screwed and they were labeled as criminals by the govt.  I've been researching the dairy industry lately, to try to learn how some dairy producers are getting screwed, while the Big Ag labels are making a fortune.  I have been appalled at the amount of government manipulation that is involved in dairy prices and production.  I'm amazed that there are even people still trying to produce milk for our country, considering the way that they get screwed so bad.  In the last few years as I have been doing more research into how things work, the amount of government interference in the production of food has just been astounding to me.  The government and Big Money truly own the food supply and people do not realize it.  And when you own the food supply, you have the people enslaved and can do pretty much whatever you want with them.  There is plenty of food available for all - don't let somebody tell you differently.  But gov't agendas, and not just our gov't, play a huge part in what food is available and who it is available too. 

This whole avian flu crap - it isn't a huge deal for us small flock owners if the gov't weren't involved.  Because our birds are healthier, they have better immune systems and they can adapt to these avian flu viruses.  Yes some will die, but there will be some living - because they do build antibodies to the virus and live and we saw it last year when they started killing small flocks where the virus was detected, yet the small flocks weren't dying off in mass numbers like the commercial birds were.  The problem is the stranglehold that the commercial poultry industry has on things.  Their birds are under constant stress from being crammed into buildings with very little room, layers are kept under lights to constantly lay more eggs.  Those commercial birds can't build healthy immune systems to fight off even simple germs.  So when an avian flu goes through a commercial facility, thousands upon thousands of birds keel over.  Not only is there a loss of money involved in losing large numbers of commercial poultry, but if it went on too long, then there gets to be a food shortage - because most of the country's food supply has been so consolidated, with very few companies actually owning nearly every single food label in the country.  So yes, the avian flu could cause a disruption in the food supply for millions of city people who want to buy the cheapest chicken possible.  And of course the Big Poultry Labels aren't going to want to lose money by having their birds die off.  Which is why the gov't is so intent on making ridiculous rules regarding poultry, to make it difficult for small flock owners to buy/sell/transport - to protect the interests of the commercial poultry producers.  Because you can feed a lot of people with more sustainable birds and husbandry methods, but you can't make a huge profit unless people are willing to pay more money for the meat and eggs from sustainable flocks.  And there again, greed in the form of crony capitalism, not true capitalism, rears its head and the govt will use *threat to the food supply* as their excuse for slaughtering small flocks and causing small flock owners problems.

The big poultry factories don't loose everything when the USDA "depopulates" a flock. The government even reimburses them for each bird they kill. The poultry companies treat chicken farmers like Monsanto treats soybean farmers, probably worse. I'm in the process of getting NPIP/AI certification so I don't have to worry about the interstate laws, but I do know that all that is useless during an AI outbreak. It means the government already knows where my flock is if I'm in the 6 mile radius. The government will always use the public health argument during an AI outbreak when they start eradicating poultry.