BREEDING FOR PRODUCTION...EGGS AND OR MEAT.

[Turk Raphael]

I can't get over the fact that "hatchery stock" is demonized at every opportunity. I expect it on the 'show/exhibition' threads but I guess I shouldn't be too surprised that it is dumped here too. I can't help but wonder what the folks who operate hatcheries do RIGHT? People keep them in business so perhaps folks who are into chickens for PRODUCTION OF EGGS AND MEAT are satisfied with them, HUMMM?

Turk

 

[ronott1]

I can't get over the fact that "hatchery stock" is demonized at every opportunity. I expect it on the 'show/exhibition' threads but I guess I shouldn't be too surprised that it is dumped here too. I can't help but wonder what the folks who operate hatcheries do RIGHT? People keep them in business so perhaps folks who are into chickens for PRODUCTION OF EGGS AND MEAT are satisfied with them, HUMMM?

Turk

EEs from hatcheries are poo pooed. That is one reason why I tried to say they are not the same thing. Colored egg layers that do not make APA SOP are completely different.

Most EEs have great feed conversion for egg laying. One could work with them to get the meat part up too.

 

[Turk Raphael]

EEs from hatcheries are poo pooed. That is one reason why I tried to say they are not the same thing. Colored egg layers that do not make APA SOP are completely different.

Most EEs have great feed conversion for egg laying. One could work with them to get the meat part up too.

That's all well and good but I just took RON's initial post to heart and expected that folks (like me) who buy hatchery stock, wouldn't have to read too much denigration of chickens that come from hatcheries, at least not on this thread. Perhaps a better place for such talk would be on a thread that's dedicated to SOP birds.

 

[Arielle]

I can't get over the fact that "hatchery stock" is demonized at every opportunity. I expect it on the 'show/exhibition' threads but I guess I shouldn't be too surprised that it is dumped here too. I can't help but wonder what the folks who operate hatcheries do RIGHT? People keep them in business so perhaps folks who are into chickens for PRODUCTION OF EGGS AND MEAT are satisfied with them, HUMMM?

Turk

In general I am happy with my original hatchery stock-- they are small birds, and are good layers. However they don't match up to ANY picture I have seen of breeders stock here on BYC.

I was advised to start with SS from a hatchery as they were hard to get. Love the girls BUT they were smaller that the trio I had found elsewhere, and this put me behind by a whole year. Sometimes one does need to start with hatchery stock-- but trying to find out the details of that stock is much harder than talking to a person at a show to find decent stock of better size and hopefully of good laying ability: it is an opportunity to ask all the questions necessary that will never be answered at a big hatchery because those that handle the orders/phones don't know the answers. IT is a mass production ssystem AND it is why I was willing to buy my first layers via hatchery as I was pretty certain egg laying ability was the first priority. ANd they didn't disappoint me.

ANd as I said above IN MY EXPERIENCE my SSH from McMurray hatchery was very tiny about 1/3 the size of the rooster at the show.

SO no I"m not trying to TRASH hatchery birds but to say the culling pressure is different than another breeder. ANd these examples were my experiences.

I value the big hatcheries as they are the first introductin people new to chickens have with a huge variety of breeds . . . a stepping stone . . .

 

[Turk Raphael]

In general I am happy with my original hatchery stock-- they are small birds, and are good layers. However they don't match up to ANY picture I have seen of breeders stock here on BYC.

I was advised to start with SS from a hatchery as they were hard to get. Love the girls BUT they were smaller that the trio I had found elsewhere, and this put me behind by a whole year. Sometimes one does need to start with hatchery stock-- but trying to find out the details of that stock is much harder than talking to a person at a show to find decent stock of better size and hopefully of good laying ability: it is an opportunity to ask all the questions necessary that will never be answered at a big hatchery because those that handle the orders/phones don't know the answers. IT is a mass production ssystem AND it is why I was willing to buy my first layers via hatchery as I was pretty certain egg laying ability was the first priority. ANd they didn't disappoint me.

ANd as I said above IN MY EXPERIENCE my SSH from McMurray hatchery was very tiny about 1/3 the size of the rooster at the show.

SO no I"m not trying to TRASH hatchery birds but to say the culling pressure is different than another breeder. ANd these examples were my experiences.

I value the big hatcheries as they are the first introductin people new to chickens have with a huge variety of breeds . . . a stepping stone . . .

Stepping stone to where?

 

[ronott1]

That's all well and good but I just took RON's initial post to heart and expected that folks (like me) who buy hatchery stock, wouldn't have to read too much denigration of chickens that come from hatcheries, at least not on this thread. Perhaps a better place for such talk would be on a thread that's dedicated to SOP birds.

I am being positive about Hatchery EEs and saying bad things about SOP Amearucanas. They look pretty but are terrible egg layers. Hatchery EEs are much better egg layers.

Personality is not production but many will kill a Rooster that is considered "mean". That makes sense if you are showing them.

I remember growing up, the prize stud Holstein Bull was kept locked up and not allowed to be around people. They did not care about that, just the production qualities of the Bull.

 

[Turk Raphael]

I am being positive about Hatchery EEs and saying bad things about SOP Amearucanas. They look pretty but are terrible egg layers. Hatchery EEs are much better egg layers.

Personality is not production but many will kill a Rooster that is considered "mean". That makes sense if you are showing them.

I remember growing up, the prize stud Holstein Bull was kept locked up and not allowed to be around people. They did not care about that, just the production qualities of the Bull.

Ok, but the following quote gave me the impression that you might feel otherwise.

"The EEs from a hatchery is the one that has a reputation for nasty Roosters".

I am just a little bit touchy about so much negativity of hatchery stock. I've seen several birds that met show standard that I wouldn't own...

Thanks for the response, ronott...I'll take a break and cool my jets...

 

[gjensen]

I can't get over the fact that "hatchery stock" is demonized at every opportunity. I expect it on the 'show/exhibition' threads but I guess I shouldn't be too surprised that it is dumped here too. I can't help but wonder what the folks who operate hatcheries do RIGHT? People keep them in business so perhaps folks who are into chickens for PRODUCTION OF EGGS AND MEAT are satisfied with them, HUMMM?

Turk

I have not read anything negative until this post. All I have read is the description used to differentiate between different types. There is a difference. There is no getting around that. They are what they are. If they are from a hatchery, they are hatchery stock. If they are from an exhibition line they are a strain of exhibition birds. How else should it be said?

 

[gjensen]

George finding these sustainable breeds is a difficult thing-- because they are less popular and few have them, they get lost in the noise touting the popular breeds.

I started asking over 2 years ago about free ranging etc. GOt a beautiful reply from Joeseph ( Yellow House Farm) and only at the end did someone mention games; unfortunatte ly by then the dual pupose of the more popular breeds were fixed in my head; but as I said above, I never forgot what that man said-- while initally I didn't want to heat the advice , that changed to I just didn't know how to investigate it and find out more: all my questions were hitting closed doors. BUt I never forgot.

In my first batch of hatchery chicks I got a SSH, a little rooster that was slow to mature, and when he did he ruled the yard for a long time ( until the EE crosses grew up) and I appreciate his quick reaction time. Approachable to about 5 feet, then he was wary and could only catch him when he went to roost for the night. He was a tiny bird being hatchery, but I saw what looked like a fine example at a regional show and was stunned at the sheer size of that SSH ( SIlver Spangled Hamburg) -- and I often think of the possibility as a sustainable farm bird--.

I did not learn of the high protein requirement of the buckeye chicks until the day the chicks mailed-- was totally surprized as I have read the buckeye thread for several years, and though that might have been mentioned and went right over my head, it certainly was not a focus of dicssion like feather color is.

AM am still at trying to undestand what " sustainable" means . . . . and I suspect there are several models which reflect differing levels of self sufficency.

You are right "sustainable" would be different for everyone.

Part of the point that I was trying to make was the most efficient breeds, are the most neglected breeds, and the irony in that.

You are right. Their are certain strains and breeds that dominate the scene. A lot of that is promotion, and the sheep effect. Also, the demographics of the new poultry keepers.

You do not have to feed the buckeyes 27% feed. It is a choice, not a requirement. I guarantee you that if you fed one batch 20% and the other 27% they would average the same at the end of the season. The higher protein will only get them to the top of their growth curve sooner. Genetic potential and limitations will rule in the end.
Whether or not the decreased time it takes to get the birds to a processing weight is worth the added cost of the feed is something you will have to evaluate. It very well may be worth the cost. Then you are not paying more, but less.

 

[southernmomma]

Quote:
Agreed

There no reason to draw a line in the sand over hatchery and breeder. There are traits to be gained by both, either singly or in combination. We might lose valuable information if we are too inclusive.

M