Discussion in 'General breed discussions & FAQ' started by hellbender, Dec 27, 2013.

  1. bnjrob

    bnjrob Overrun With Chickens

    Dec 31, 2008
    North TX
    We don't disagree about making it people's choice. You have put thought into things and feel that it's what you want to do in your flock and I'm ok with that. I have no problem with people crossbreeding if that is their choice. Everyone has different goals and expectations.

    I'm for presenting information so that people have all the options. Mostly I see that each side does not want any other side presented and people don't speak up for fear of making someone angry and the newbies don't get the information they need to sort through all the options.
  2. hellbender

    hellbender Overrun With Chickens

    Sep 2, 2013
    Grinder's Switch
    This thread was started for the purpose of getting information about production matter if they are mongrels or Top Show winners. If they produce or have potential of helping a strain to produce, it's all good.

    No one should be made to feel like their opinions aren't welcome or valued...I know exactly what that's

    I've been only rarely posting here but I have really enjoyed the give and take that has seemed to have spawned new life to this now I'll go back to being a semi-silent observer.

    Ig someone has a thought on me being a LURKER, your opinions about that are welcome too!!! lol
    1 person likes this.
  3. bnjrob

    bnjrob Overrun With Chickens

    Dec 31, 2008
    North TX
    LOL, you know we go through the same cycles and rehash the same issues every time someone new gets on a thread. And to the people that have heard it before, or that have strong personal feelings one way or another, they can sometimes feel like anyone with a different opinion is trying to force other people onto their side. Personally, I don't get butthurt over everything that is said on the internet. Although I do have copies of the butthurt report form should anyone want one though. ;)

    My problem with any thread on BYC is that newbies come on looking for guidance and they frequently don't get all the info they need. Each side wants to only present that side and nobody wants to any other options to be voiced. I've had "heritage" people get upset because I suggested to someone that hatchery stock would meet more of their needs than anything else, once we finally got the girl to actually be able to sit down and write out her expectations and goals. Linda has done her research and has specific goals in mind and is making an informed decision of how to proceed on her path. But a lot of the total newbies that breeze through here are still drifting and they don't know what to ask. They don't know that one person's opinion of what is good production is different from another's opinion. They get caught up with one suggestion they read somewhere, and they think that is the best option because no one else stepped up and showed them other options. I think if we really care about poultry, we should give these folks the tools they need to succeed rather than letting them go blindly down a path without a map of choices.
    1 person likes this.
  4. DesertChic

    DesertChic Overrun With Chickens

    Nov 13, 2014
    Southern Arizona
    For what it's worth I (a newbie) wholeheartedly appreciate the presentation of the different opinions and perspectives presented by everyone on this thread...and I actually think it's been very civil. I've been on a few threads that got downright nasty. Here I see people who may disagree and present their opinions as to why, but they do so with respect and name calling or character bashing. I haven't encountered a single person on this thread who seems intent on insulting...only instructing and debating. (And I read the thread from the very beginning. It took a long time. [​IMG])

    That said I hope I in no way came across as insulting or antagonistic towards anyone. If I did, then I am truly sorry. By contributing to the "rehashing of the old debate" I was hoping only to foster healthy discussion...and maybe even arrive at a few solutions myself or help others to arrive at theirs. Bnjrob is right about one's hard for us newbies. I didn't grow up around chickens and haven't had the benefit of generations of wisdom penetrating my thick skull by osmosis. I spent two years reading and researching, talking to people around me, and sometimes stressing out over the very idea of raising chickens. And then one day I simply took the leap with hatchery stock I purchased from a couple local feed stores and found my new passion. All I want now is to find my groove with the breed(s) that work for me and cruise on. I don't expect immediate success because I know it's a process, but I'm trying to find my footing so I can get a solid start. That's not necessarily an easy thing to I turn to you because many of you have already been there. I'm trying to learn from your wisdom and experience...even if only via cyberspace. the interest of sharing information, I'd like to add a title to the book selections recommended so far for us newbies: "Judging Poultry for Production" by James E. Rice. I started it last night and have only read the first 67 pages, but it's helping to answer a lot of the questions I had about selecting my potential production poultry breeders. In my opinion, for those of us just trying to get a general idea of where to start in selecting good production stock of any breed, this is the book I wish I had started with. "The Call of the Hen" and "Genetics of the Fowl" were helpful, but I think this book does a better job of presenting the basics in establishing a foundation flock without becoming too cerebral.

    And now...I'm going to go commune with my little chicks and let the sheer joy I receive from being with them wash away any stresses that the day has delivered upon me so far. [​IMG]
    2 people like this.
  5. HaikuHeritageFarm

    HaikuHeritageFarm Chillin' With My Peeps

    Jul 7, 2010
    Anchorage, AK
    Just thought this was worth repeating. :)
  6. gjensen

    gjensen Overrun With Chickens

    Feb 22, 2011
    Midlands, South Carolina
    I am at a loss to see where the different sides are not represented. You mentioned that some are afraid to speak up. Is there an example of fear that you could share? I also do not understand the remark that each side does not want the other side represented? Can you provide an example?

    I only recall your critique of my posts, and my response. It appeared that the root of it all is that you did not like the direction of the conversation. I do not know. Maybe you can clarify. I have not seen the concerns that you have raised.

    I will say this. I started in this hobby two decades ago, and much of it was projects, crosses, and tinkering that revolved around numbers. Eight years (or so) ago, I decided to stick to a breed that fit what had come to be my ideal. A breed that had become rare and was in bad shape. So I sympathize with the desire to promote these breeds. I also appreciate what it takes to make progress with an individual pure breed.
    On the other hand, I have never lost the interest in production genetics. I never got into color projects. This was my first interest and remains at the front of my thinking today. I tinkered with the projects for my own reasons, and I committed to a pure breed for my own reasons. I do what I want to on my own yard. I expect everyone will do the same.

    I am also not a purist. I refuse to wallow in the muck of mediocrity just because it seams like the right thing to do. You know enough about genetics to know that something will not come out of nothing. Some efforts require forward thinking, and some flexibility.
    These types of efforts are not for everyone. At the same time I will not presume to know who that is or is not. I am one of those people that thinks he can do anything. If I want something, I generally get it. All it really takes is some want to.

    When I speak on here, I assume that I am speaking to adults that will make mature decisions. I also expect that some will not like what I say. Like you did not like what I said.

    Good debates are good. I like them myself. That is if they stay on track, and to the point.

    I will concede that for beginners that want to learn to breed a pure breed, it is best to stay away from the distractions. In that case a mentor is helpful. I think that I have been saying that though.

    I enjoy your contributions, though we got off track today.

    At the end of the day, they are just chickens. LOL.
    2 people like this.
  7. bnjrob

    bnjrob Overrun With Chickens

    Dec 31, 2008
    North TX
  8. ocap

    ocap Overrun With Chickens

    Jan 1, 2013
    Smithville, Missouri
    what is the definition of "Meat Production" ?
    (if you answer this question please state your personal goal)

    I would like to have an egg goal of three, four or five eggs a week all year long. Am I right that most low egg producers go to zero for several weeks?

    edited for grammar
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2015
  9. dfr1973

    dfr1973 Chillin' With My Peeps

    Nov 20, 2011
    rural central FL
    Meat side of the equation, for me: nice small fryer at 16-18 weeks; nice broiler from 20-26 weeks; and a really nice capon carcass in the 8-12 month range. (I am using the old grocery terms I learned as a kid here).

    Egg side, for me: 14-15 eggs per month per pullet/young hen would do up breakfast plus baking given a decent-sized flock of (non-breeding) layers

    Now THIS ought to prove to be an interesting and informative discussion!
    1 person likes this.
  10. LindaB220

    LindaB220 Overrun With Chickens

    Aug 23, 2013
    Portland/Vancouver area
    What she said!!!!!
    1 person likes this.

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