BREEDING FOR PRODUCTION...EGGS AND OR MEAT.

[hellbender]

well, this is the production thread.

M

 

[BGMatt]

This is interesting. Yes I have my costs in an extensive excel spreadsheet. .. beginning at week one, then weekly adjustments to 26 weeks. I'll have to consult that sheet to get exact amounts, but I found fascinating was the "order of preference" listed above. I sell eating eggs above and beyond all else, then the list is the same as yours. Why? Because that is a more constant and reliable number. I know that unless something unusual happens that I am going to eating eggs to all the same people next week... And the week after, and so on. Selling hatching eggs or chicks is not as "repeatable" as frequently. I sell eating eggs every week year round. I sell hatching eggs only in March and April every year, and only after I have hatched all the number I need/want in Jan and Feb.

I listed them more in order of my selling preference, why concentrate on selling eating eggs for $5 a dozen when I can sell hatching eggs for $60-$100 per dozen? Edit: This is also why production is important to me. If the birds don't produce I have to keep more to be able to have enough to sell.

My costs are likely higher than many since I'm approaching this from a hobby (but one that must pay for itself) rather than profit motivated. My feed is $38 for 50#, but it's the best there is. The birds are not free ranged, too many dangers, so they get exclusively that feed. I don't supplement it because I don't want to upset the amino acid balance etc. My hope is that by the time spring is over will have sold enough to pay for the birds through summer, then sell off the ones that I won't be breeding from to feed the breeders through winter, and pay back the "debt" they have incurred with their raising. This year will be tight, but after I get back in the show ring and get some wins under my belt and a larger flock for next year it shouldn't be as bad.

 

[gjensen]

In dairy farming, feed efficiency is what makes people money, and what pushes people out. Too many times the dairy industry focuses on production rather than simply income over feed costs. I take this to heart as a grazer and crossbreed my cows for a more efficient, healthy, and therefore longer lasting cow. With my 'mutts' I am slightly below the national average for production but can cut almost 25% of my yearly feed costs by grazing. Feed costs take around 50% of my income. Also, my facilities are severely outdated but I can make the operation work by getting my cows out of the barn. Most young farmers in my situation would listen the industry and build a state of the art facility to push for production and milk more cows than they can feed. They would then have to pay off the facility for the rest of their lives, refinancing every time the markets make paying the bills difficult.

That brings me to my question with price per egg. At $3.00 per dozen, we can buy eggs at the store for the same price if not cheaper ( We haven't bought eggs in a while!). I'm sure buying cheaper eggs in the store isn't the point. But if we can lower that cost by foraging or finding cheap or discarded feed we should do so if possible. It also raises the question of productive life of the chickens and therefore the frequency of buying /raising replacements.

I do not know how practical it would be for you, but that milk would be an excellent supplement. It is an ingredient that could expand the usefulness of other ingredients. It may be worth too much for you to consider.

The hang up with much of the save the money ideas, is what is the time and labor worth. I always figured that it did not take much of my time to be worth a bag of feed. I always appreciate low or no labor ideas. I passed on a lot of good ideas because of the labor costs. It is a real cost when it could be spent making money. When it is for our pleasure then it is irrelevant.

The one I like the most is opening the door, and letting them out. I like saving 20-25% of the feed by just opening the door.

Instead of using the kitchen scraps for this and that, I prefer to give them directly to the birds. I figure that at about 2.5% of their ration.

The best thing we can do is keep efficient birds. That may be the best option to get the cost per egg down.

Sometimes I wish that we weren't so irrationally hooked on brown eggs. I have never seen anyone eat the shell. It would be hard to do better than a free ranged flock of beautiful Brown Leghorns.

Another twist is birds that lay less, but need a whole lot less. Some are productive on a low input setting. I was reading how in World War 2 some of the English favored Buttercups because they laid a reasonable amount of eggs from rustling through the hedgerows. Apparently farm flocks of American Games were common in the past. These lighter birds do actually have some meat on them to eat, though we act as if there is none there.

I can think of a million ways to go with this. We all want something different I guess.

I do tend to think getting the cost of the eggs down starts with the birds themselves. Teasing 20 more eggs from a 180-200 egg flock is 10%. A 240 egg flock of Leghorns that eats 20% less feed is a big change. 20% for the quantity of eggs and 20% for the feed itself. That is 40% on it's own. Couple that with some practical feeding method improvements, and there has been a substantial change in the cost of feed.

 

[neopolitancrazy]

I agree with the quality feed and forages point. Quality forage will lower feed costs in a hurry and/or will boost production. The free feed I was referring to was ears of corn dropped in the field, the small piles at the local feed elevator (FIL runs one), or clean out from the feed truck.

and...Last year I was thrilled for the opportunity to take a course from Missouri University on pasture based dairy management. In that course they said that someone rotating cows every day would get 75%-80% of potential forage while continuous grazing (no rotation) would get 30% of the potential forage. As far as even manure distribution, that continuous rotation would take 19 years to get a poop patty in every square yard of pasture while 2 day rotations would take just 2 years to get a poop patty in every square yard. I assume shorter rotations would diverse the manure in an even shorter time.

In addition to "found" feeds that you mentioned in the earlier post, you might have a local brewer near you that would contribute spent brewers grain. As GJensen mentioned, your raw milk is an excellent feedsource, if that is economically feasible. Something I and a few other people are doing is fermenting our feed before offering it to the chickens. As it turns out, all us non-ruminant types could benefit from eating fermented feeds, they are higher in available, digestible nutrition than the same non-fermented feeds.

In reference to your MU course, I was blessed to go to grazing school at their research facility in Linn County. I dearly loved my Missouri farm, had to leave just as it was ready to go into production.

Best wishes,
Angela

 

[bmvf]

I do not know how practical it would be for you, but that milk would be an excellent supplement. It is an ingredient that could expand the usefulness of other ingredients. It may be worth too much for you to consider.

Could that milk have antibiotic residues in? Would that harm the chickens in any way? I sometimes have waste milk from cows treated with antibiotics that get's dumped down the drain or fed to a bull calf.

 

[Arielle]

Quote: I like your thinking--frugal. THe concern becomes that the bacteria gets killedl off in the chickens too. GOod and bad. Bad and good. ANd the residue gets into the eggs. I expect at some point the residue becomes minimal as it gets processed via the liver over and over if the eggs are continually fed back. I have not seen a timeline on this specific idea though. SHame to waste the milk though. Perhaps after feeding the calf or chickens be sure to get it probiotics to replace those lost . . . . .

 

[thedragonlady]

What a chesty 'lil' dude!! WOW! Is much of that is exaggerated by feathers?

M

Not much. At this age Buffs have some skirts, but the breast feathers are fairly close fitting.This breast is one of the reasons I used some import Buffs in my line. They do throw a very deep keel,with a plump breast . Too many Orps have cutaway breasts.

 

[thedragonlady]

I do not know how practical it would be for you, but that milk would be an excellent supplement. It is an ingredient that could expand the usefulness of other ingredients. It may be worth too much for you to consider.

The hang up with much of the save the money ideas, is what is the time and labor worth. I always figured that it did not take much of my time to be worth a bag of feed. I always appreciate low or no labor ideas. I passed on a lot of good ideas because of the labor costs. It is a real cost when it could be spent making money. When it is for our pleasure then it is irrelevant.

The one I like the most is opening the door, and letting them out. I like saving 20-25% of the feed by just opening the door.

Instead of using the kitchen scraps for this and that, I prefer to give them directly to the birds. I figure that at about 2.5% of their ration.

The best thing we can do is keep efficient birds. That may be the best option to get the cost per egg down.

Sometimes I wish that we weren't so irrationally hooked on brown eggs. I have never seen anyone eat the shell. It would be hard to do better than a free ranged flock of beautiful Brown Leghorns.

Another twist is birds that lay less, but need a whole lot less. Some are productive on a low input setting. I was reading how in World War 2 some of the English favored Buttercups because they laid a reasonable amount of eggs from rustling through the hedgerows. Apparently farm flocks of American Games were common in the past. These lighter birds do actually have some meat on them to eat, though we act as if there is none there.

I can think of a million ways to go with this. We all want something different I guess.

I do tend to think getting the cost of the eggs down starts with the birds themselves. Teasing 20 more eggs from a 180-200 egg flock is 10%. A 240 egg flock of Leghorns that eats 20% less feed is a big change. 20% for the quantity of eggs and 20% for the feed itself. That is 40% on it's own. Couple that with some practical feeding method improvements, and there has been a substantial change in the cost of feed.

I inherited a flock of American Games when I bought my farm land in GA.46 years ago.They had been feral for years, and managed to survive on what they could find. I started feeding them, and the flock multiplied in a hurry.When we thinned out the flock, we tried processing some of those birds. Ever tried to chew Latex?

 

[RedRidge]

 
In dairy farming, feed efficiency is what makes people money, and what pushes people out.  Too many times the dairy industry focuses on production rather than simply income over feed costs.  I take this to heart as a grazer and crossbreed my cows for a more efficient, healthy, and therefore longer lasting cow.  With my 'mutts' I am slightly below the national average for production but can cut almost 25% of my yearly feed costs by grazing.  Feed costs take around 50% of my income.  Also, my facilities are severely outdated but I can make the operation work by getting my cows out of the barn.  Most young farmers in my situation would listen the industry and build a state of the art facility to push for production and milk more cows than they can feed.  They would then have to pay off the facility for the rest of their lives, refinancing every time the markets make paying the bills difficult.

That brings me to my question with price per egg.  At $3.00 per dozen, we can buy eggs at the store for the same price if not cheaper ( We haven't bought eggs in a while!).  I'm sure buying cheaper eggs in the store isn't the point.  But if we can lower that cost by foraging or finding cheap or discarded feed we should do so if possible.  It also raises the question of productive life of the chickens and therefore the frequency of buying /raising replacements.

 I do not know how practical it would be for you, but that milk would be an excellent supplement. It is an ingredient that could expand the usefulness of other ingredients. It may be worth too much for you to consider.

 The hang up with much of the save the money ideas, is what is the time and labor worth. I always figured that it did not take much of my time to be worth a bag of feed. I always appreciate low or no labor ideas. I passed on a lot of good ideas because of the labor costs. It is a real cost when it could be spent making money. When it is for our pleasure then it is irrelevant.

 The one I like the most is opening the door, and letting them out. I like saving 20-25% of the feed by just opening the door.

 Instead of using the kitchen scraps for this and that, I prefer to give them directly to the birds. I figure that at about 2.5% of their ration.

 The best thing we can do is keep efficient birds. That may be the best option to get the cost per egg down.

 Sometimes I wish that we weren't so irrationally hooked on brown eggs. I have never seen anyone eat the shell. It would be hard to do better than a free ranged flock of beautiful Brown Leghorns.

 Another twist is birds that lay less, but need a whole lot less. Some are productive on a low input setting. I was reading how in World War 2 some of the English favored Buttercups because they laid a reasonable amount of eggs from rustling through the hedgerows. Apparently farm flocks of American Games were common in the past. These lighter birds do actually have some meat on them to eat, though we act as if there is none there.

 I can think of a million ways to go with this. We all want something different I guess.

 I do tend to think getting the cost of the eggs down starts with the birds themselves. Teasing 20 more eggs from a 180-200 egg flock is 10%. A 240 egg flock of Leghorns that eats 20% less feed is a big change. 20% for the quantity of eggs and 20% for the feed itself. That is 40% on it's own. Couple that with some practical feeding method improvements, and there has been a substantial change in the cost of feed.

Some options to consider. ..
Since I milk both cattle and sheep my poultry get a lot of whey - I'm a cheesemaker. However, I would never consider giving milk to the poultry as it would be cost prohibitive. My A2/A2 cows milk sells for $10/gallon and the sheep's milk goes for $18.
I sell buttermilk also but only in the spring which is when I make all of my butter for the year.
As far as scraps, all of my scraps go directly to the BSF - never directly to the poultry. Why? Because it is more efficient to convert those scraps to animal protein and calcium. My small bin alone converts 5 lbs of scraps a day. I get wasted food for free from the church food pantry and am able to produce enough bsf each summer to last me the entire winter. (Well... Hopefully. I only have one bag left in the freezer this spring and the bsf haven't begin to lay here yet this year. )
BSF are so easy to raise and harvest and they occur naturally and are free... And a good colony will keep other types of bacteria harboring flies away.

 

[mithious]

Some options to consider. ..
Since I milk both cattle and sheep my poultry get a lot of whey - I'm a cheesemaker. However, I would never consider giving milk to the poultry as it would be cost prohibitive. My A2/A2 cows milk sells for $10/gallon and the sheep's milk goes for $18.
I sell buttermilk also but only in the spring which is when I make all of my butter for the year.
As far as scraps, all of my scraps go directly to the BSF - never directly to the poultry. Why? Because it is more efficient to convert those scraps to animal protein and calcium. My small bin alone converts 5 lbs of scraps a day. I get wasted food for free from the church food pantry and am able to produce enough bsf each summer to last me the entire winter. (Well... Hopefully. I only have one bag left in the freezer this spring and the bsf haven't begin to lay here yet this year. )
BSF are so easy to raise and harvest and they occur naturally and are free... And a good colony will keep other types of bacteria harboring flies away.

I was JUST going to mention the whey. I used to milk our goats and make cheese. Used to give the chickens the whey. It has lots still in it and is great for them and what else would you do with it but throw it? Plus they loved it.

I also feed the chicks, to 8 weeks old, back some eggs, and during molts, use some eggs for added protein and calcium. I feed it, every other day, for the chicks, and every 3 days for molts and during real cold days, in the winter, feed some to the layers, mixed in with wet food.

I want to learn to ferment only because I think it would cause less waste on the chickens part. The biggest cost I am finding, is they scatter their feed, when eating. I put ne of those plastic? black tubs under their feeder, but as I am cleaning out the coop the layers are in now, I am finding a TON of feed in their bedding. I have yet to find a good method to stop this, so thinking along the lines of fermented feed.

Can anyone tell me how to do it? I'm switching over to a game bird feed if that makes a difference in how it's fermented?

Thanks in advance!