BREEDING FOR PRODUCTION...EGGS AND OR MEAT.

[ronott1]

An admission or perhaps confession.

I'm sure I'm not the only one to have found himself in a situation where a certain breed has been depleted for one reason or another. Early this spring, I realized I had caponized or poulardized too many of our Dark Cornish. I had deemed some of them to be too long of leg or too narrow of heart girth or something else to use in our hybrid-capon production program. virtually none of the birds were suitable, once they had reached maturity. The natural thing to do was panic since my go-to hatchery had stopped breeding/selling Dark Cornish.

I checked around at other hatcheries and nothing suited me. I even contacted several breeders and no one I spoke with or e-mailed had anything for sale. I was too late...except for one place I have sworn I'd not use under any conditions. I swollowed my pride and nearly swollowed my tongue but I ordered 25 pullets from PURELY POULTRY... Yes, your eyes are in focus...Purely Poultry and I have to say, going into 4.5 months, I couldn't be happier with the birds as they mature into very good birds with excellent type and to my mine, conformation. I was able to ascertain the birds were shipped from some hatchery in Ohio but that's as far as I could track it down but that's ok. I have enough Dark Cornish to keep my supplied for quite some time because of the 25 'pullets' that were ordered, 3 of them are cockerels and while I was annoyed with that fact at first...they have become quite welcome.

Don't know if I'd order from a drop-ship clearing house again but I could not be happier with my luck this one time.

Can you get some pictures for us

 

[Beer can]

@hellbender Last yr I ended up with a dark cornish pullet in a mix batch from Meyer's hatchery. She ended up looking nice and meaty, nice big breast. I was looking toward to eating her but something else got her first :-(

 

[hellbender]

Can you get some pictures for us

Yes. I'll try over the next couple days. I have some bad (commensurate with my photo skills). I'll get a friend or my son to get some pics tomorrow or day after.

Can you get some pictures for us

 

[Beekissed]

Yes, hatchery birds do go broody. But it is bred away from due to the fact that hatcheries require large quantities of chicks and broodiness decreases number of eggs hatched. Hatchery birds do not tend to go as broody as often, or in as large of numbers, as birds that have been selected for broodiness or at least not culled for broodiness. My friends with hatchery birds do not have broodies in nearly the number or the amount of time as I have in my flock, where most of the hens go broody and do it very frequently.

I'm breeding towards broodiness in my WRs...at least, broodiness at the correct times of year. It's my theory that a bird with normal hormonal function will go broody in the spring of the year as a natural part of reproducing her own kind. I'm going to see if that broody period and the consequent time of raising chicks produces a bird that lays more reliably at others times of the year and for more years than she normally would. Just like breeding a rabbit more seems to keep her more fertile and produces larger litters, I'm hoping that allowing my birds to perform their normal function as a hen each spring will get them into a cycle and natural rhythm of production that will keep them laying better and also keep them from going broody at the wrong time of the year(summer/fall/winter).

Just a theory and an experiment for now that I'd like to see if it pans out. For now I'm culling any hen of the WR breed that doesn't possess a natural broodiness but also culling those that go broody more than once a year, in the spring, specifically.

All three pullets that went broody in the spring this year were produced by breeding a heirloom line WR male over two hatchery stock females, one of which was naturally broody. I'll be watching to see if they go broody again this year and if they go broody at all in the spring. As it is, they all came into lay at almost the exact same time, they all went broody together and they all went back to laying at the same time, so it looks like we are on a schedule and one that I'd like to keep.

Are you breeding FOR broodiness or against it?

 

[bnjrob]

I'm breeding towards broodiness in my WRs...at least, broodiness at the correct times of year. It's my theory that a bird with normal hormonal function will go broody in the spring of the year as a natural part of reproducing her own kind. I'm going to see if that broody period and the consequent time of raising chicks produces a bird that lays more reliably at others times of the year and for more years than she normally would. Just like breeding a rabbit more seems to keep her more fertile and produces larger litters, I'm hoping that allowing my birds to perform their normal function as a hen each spring will get them into a cycle and natural rhythm of production that will keep them laying better and also keep them from going broody at the wrong time of the year(summer/fall/winter).

Just a theory and an experiment for now that I'd like to see if it pans out. For now I'm culling any hen of the WR breed that doesn't possess a natural broodiness but also culling those that go broody more than once a year, in the spring, specifically.

All three pullets that went broody in the spring this year were produced by breeding a heirloom line WR male over two hatchery stock females, one of which was naturally broody. I'll be watching to see if they go broody again this year and if they go broody at all in the spring. As it is, they all came into lay at almost the exact same time, they all went broody together and they all went back to laying at the same time, so it looks like we are on a schedule and one that I'd like to keep.

Are you breeding FOR broodiness or against it?

As frustrating as it has been to have so many go broody and do it repeatedly, I am trying to keep broodiness in the flock with a goal of broody hatching and raising. Electricity is a luxury and can go out at any time, I want to have birds that can perpetuate the flock without being completely dependent on an incubator. It's a challenge to work with them on their schedule when my schedule isn't meshing, but we'll figure out it eventually or die trying. LOL. Now that we have more birds on the ground, losing some to a bad broody hatch isn't so critical like it was a few years ago when we had just a handful of birds.

 

[Beekissed]

I agree! I'm trying to develop that kind of flock also, along with being naturally healthy, great layers and natural mothering traits. The power goes out here for no reason at all most of the time, but more often during storms and can stay out for over 2 wks. Where does that leave a person right when spring storms and high winds hit in March? That leaves someone who better have an alternative to incubators...that would be me. No matter how limiting broody hen hatches are as to size of hatch, they still have a better hatch rate than I could ever achieve, the chicks are healthier and more vigorous and develop immunities naturally and I never have to worry about keeping them warm enough with the power being an iffy thing.

For me, the true meaning of a heritage breed is one that is more like a land race breed....very self sustaining, needing only minimal managing of natural rhythms of production and of health. That's my goal. Great laying is a breeding goal also, but not like most people count production....I'd like hens that lay exceptionally well when they are not brooding a family once a year.

Most people wouldn't consider that exceptional laying production, but I feel differently....producing and rearing healthy chicks IS production, but an even more important type than yearly egg counts being elevated....such hens are producing meat and replacement hens for a season, then returning to exceptional lay right afterwards. That, to me, is the height of being an exceptional layer...she's one that can reproduce her own kind, rear it to independence, and then return to the business of laying. A typical "great" layer ideal is a chicken that never stops laying to perform those functions, which leaves her pretty much an end product unless someone uses an incubator to reproduce her and then does the job of a mother in a brooder. I don't consider that sustainable, thus rendering her less than ideal as a "great" layer.

 

[Beer can]

Dad never had a incubator ever when I was young, and he always had between twenty and a hundred chickens depending on how much he could afford to feed at the time. He had RIR'S and kept his broodies.
I was going to get rid of all chickens except for the red sussex and white giants, now I have three EE Welsummer crosses courtesy of a broody EE. I shouldn't have allowed it but oh well. She was my best layer and doesn't look nothing like a EE, but laid a nice dark olive green egg all winter and up until she sat, almost every single day. I think I'll keep her.

 

[Beekissed]

My granny never had an incubator either but she managed to keep a rolling flock going without outsourcing for chicks all the time. Every spring she'd have a broody or two with a large hatch of chicks to replenish the flock.

Next spring I believe I'll use earth in my nesting boxes in the breeding/brooding pen. I've noticed that birds that go out in the bush to lay their eggs and sit seem to brood larger clutches and can hatch them more successfully...the difference being their nests are more earthen than grass and leaves. I think the earth cushions well, holds humidity well and also prevents too much rolling of the eggs when the hen moves about but still allows her to roll the eggs when she intentionally does so. I'd like to try that and see if I can place more eggs under my heavy WR hens without her crushing them when she comes off and on the nests...this tends to happen more if I try to give one more than 15 eggs to cover. I think an earthen nest basin dug right into the ground of the pen might just be the ticket, with some light hay and leaves around the edge and within the nest, but minimal.

 

[hellbender]

My granny never had an incubator either but she managed to keep a rolling flock going without outsourcing for chicks all the time. Every spring she'd have a broody or two with a large hatch of chicks to replenish the flock.

Next spring I believe I'll use earth in my nesting boxes in the breeding/brooding pen. I've noticed that birds that go out in the bush to lay their eggs and sit seem to brood larger clutches and can hatch them more successfully...the difference being their nests are more earthen than grass and leaves. I think the earth cushions well, holds humidity well and also prevents too much rolling of the eggs when the hen moves about but still allows her to roll the eggs when she intentionally does so. I'd like to try that and see if I can place more eggs under my heavy WR hens without her crushing them when she comes off and on the nests...this tends to happen more if I try to give one more than 15 eggs to cover. I think an earthen nest basin dug right into the ground of the pen might just be the ticket, with some light hay and leaves around the edge and within the nest, but minimal.

My granny never had an incubator either but she managed to keep a rolling flock going without outsourcing for chicks all the time. Every spring she'd have a broody or two with a large hatch of chicks to replenish the flock.

Next spring I believe I'll use earth in my nesting boxes in the breeding/brooding pen. I've noticed that birds that go out in the bush to lay their eggs and sit seem to brood larger clutches and can hatch them more successfully...the difference being their nests are more earthen than grass and leaves. I think the earth cushions well, holds humidity well and also prevents too much rolling of the eggs when the hen moves about but still allows her to roll the eggs when she intentionally does so. I'd like to try that and see if I can place more eggs under my heavy WR hens without her crushing them when she comes off and on the nests...this tends to happen more if I try to give one more than 15 eggs to cover. I think an earthen nest basin dug right into the ground of the pen might just be the ticket, with some light hay and leaves around the edge and within the nest, but minimal.

I'll bet she had a good 'ol tough Farm Dog or two as well...!!!

 

[Fire Ant Farm]

My granny never had an incubator either but she managed to keep a rolling flock going without outsourcing for chicks all the time. Every spring she'd have a broody or two with a large hatch of chicks to replenish the flock.

Next spring I believe I'll use earth in my nesting boxes in the breeding/brooding pen. I've noticed that birds that go out in the bush to lay their eggs and sit seem to brood larger clutches and can hatch them more successfully...the difference being their nests are more earthen than grass and leaves. I think the earth cushions well, holds humidity well and also prevents too much rolling of the eggs when the hen moves about but still allows her to roll the eggs when she intentionally does so. I'd like to try that and see if I can place more eggs under my heavy WR hens without her crushing them when she comes off and on the nests...this tends to happen more if I try to give one more than 15 eggs to cover. I think an earthen nest basin dug right into the ground of the pen might just be the ticket, with some light hay and leaves around the edge and within the nest, but minimal.

These were my thoughts with regard to sustainability. I could see having a little incubator in case a broody hen gives up in the middle or dies/is killed, but everything seems to indicate that it's easier to have a hen raise your chicks (and that the are generally healthier)...

Re: earth in nest boxes: Interesting. This goes back to the recommendations from that book, having you cut out a piece of sod to put in the nest box...

- Ant Farm