BREEDING FOR PRODUCTION...EGGS AND OR MEAT.

[cyborg]

Yeah....I still haven't figured out the whole caponizing procedure. I understand it conceptually, but even practicing on butchered birds hasn't helped. I think my husband nailed it when he said, "You need hand's on instruction." Unfortunately, all of the "chicken people" I'm acquainted with around here think I'm either crazy for wanting to do this or simply don't know anything about it. The local poultry show judge we know told me very bluntly, "Just put all the cockerels in a pen together and let them grow out until you're ready to eat them. Don't waste your time with caponizing." :/

I am pretty sure I know the gentleman you are referring to ( initials RK), and while he may be a crusty old bast****, I would not dismiss anything he has to say. He has walked the walk and talked the talk. As gjensen pointed out, he has an opinion, and while you may not share that opinion, that doesn't make it wrong, just different than your viewpoint. I am also interested in learning to caponize some of my Jersey Giants (that is what they were originally bred for after all), but I may find that it takes too much time and effort for the end product. I will make that decision after I've tried it out. It may very well be "not worth the effort", but at this point, I'd rather eat a big chicken instead of a small turkey. A small turkey might take less time and effort, but how does the taste compare?

 

[hellbender]

Do not dismiss his perspective all together. He provided a view that holds a rather practical approach. When broken down to it's most basic form, that is essentially all that has to be done. He explained the simplest and most cost effective way to produce poultry meat. That may not be what you wanted to hear from him, but it is not un true.

Take in his perspective and find value in it. Sometimes taking in a perspective is like digging for something with value. You find what seams like a gem, and you bring it home to clean it off, and polish it to appreciate it.

I like gardening. I enjoy visiting gardens no matter how elaborate or how crude. I always walk away with a new idea or a more broad perspective. Often what I notice is what they emphasize, and why they do. I may still prefer what I do, and why I do it. They may have set my wheels to turning though. A gardener garden is an expression of him or herself. We can learn a lot about them, and about life. If we pay attention and listen.

If you are going to a poultry show, it is what it is. A poultry show. Go there to learn the different breeds, and why they prefer this over that. Learn what they have to share and offer. Do not try to make it what it is not. All of this to say to not throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Concerning caponizing, you will learn it by doing it. If you kill birds learning the process, eat them. That is what we do. We kill birds and eat them.

The point in caponizing is to realize a young birds tender flesh at advanced ages and sizes. I enjoy this tender flesh by eating them young. No one else does this anymore because the grocery store bird is still tender and young. I will admit to wanting to try eating capon. It would be a unique product. But it is not an efficient way to produce poultry meat. It is an expensive way to produce poultry meat.

I do like the idea of producing capons for the holidays. A unique product for an occasion or occasions. Then there is the experience of achieving it. The mastering of a process, and another step in being another well rounded poultry man or woman.

There's much practical fact in your post George but you seem to miss some of the facts. The capon is NOT a delicacy meant only for special holidays and in comparing them to young birds in the supermarket is totally off the mark.

Learning to caponize is indeed a learning process but it is not at all a more expensive way to produce tender meat...in fact, when all things are considered, the capon could be considered a bargain. There is no need to slaughter at any certain age and it can walk around, requiring less food than any young cock or cockerel to reach and hold maximum quality.

Additionally, when it comes to taste, there is absolutely NO comparison to that of a capon and those miserable anemic things lying the saline that was pumped into them to make them juicy. Capons are naturally juicy.

 

[ronott1]

There's much practical fact in your post George but you seem to miss some of the facts. The capon is NOT a delicacy meant only for special holidays and in comparing them to young birds in the supermarket is totally off the mark.

Learning to caponize is indeed a learning process but it is not at all a more expensive way to produce tender meat...in fact, when all things are considered, the capon could be considered a bargain. There is no need to slaughter at any certain age and it can walk around, requiring less food than any young cock or cockerel to reach and hold maximum quality.

Additionally, when it comes to taste, there is absolutely NO comparison to that of a capon and those miserable anemic things lying the saline that was pumped into them to make them juicy. Capons are naturally juicy.

What George was saying was that it costs less per pound to process a 14 week old cockerel than to raise a capon up for a year.

I would be interested in seeing some supporting facts--I think I have seen them from some old studies and they supported Georges's view.

Also, George was making the point that a lot of people will not process a 14 week old cockerel because they think that a bird should be the size of a supermarket bird before you can eat it.

That goes back to expectations that are not realistic. He was not comparing a 6 week old store bird to a capon.

 

[gjensen]

There's much practical fact in your post George but you seem to miss some of the facts. The capon is NOT a delicacy meant only for special holidays and in comparing them to young birds in the supermarket is totally off the mark.

Learning to caponize is indeed a learning process but it is not at all a more expensive way to produce tender meat...in fact, when all things are considered, the capon could be considered a bargain. There is no need to slaughter at any certain age and it can walk around, requiring less food than any young cock or cockerel to reach and hold maximum quality.

Additionally, when it comes to taste, there is absolutely NO comparison to that of a capon and those miserable anemic things lying the saline that was pumped into them to make them juicy. Capons are naturally juicy.

You did not get my point. Apparently I was not clear enough.

If you re read my post, you will realize that I never said that capons were exclusive to holidays. The similar remarks are in a paragraph that explains my own perspective, immediately after a series of paragraphs on perspectives.
What I did say is that "I" do "LIKE" the "IDEA" of producing them for the holidays. That is at "MY PLACE". Not for anyone else. There are no remarks on what anyone else should do.

It is also true that capons require more resources to produce that simply eating young birds. That is why I eat young birds. Less time, less labor, and less feed. If you or anyone else feels the unique product is worth the extra resources, then that is great. I like realizing that others do it. I may try it at some point myself.

I did include the reason that commercially, the procedure was replaced. Whether you like it or agree with it does not change that the procedure was replaced by what we commercially produce today. Cheap. And whether we like it or not, the world pays for what it does prefer. The world wants cheap white meat, and that is what they get.

A few of my remarks may not be agreeable to you, but it was a post on perspectives. It was not based on facts, but the few facts that I did state are true.

 

[LindaB220]

I am very sorry for your loss. May the winds of change bring you comfort.
Best wishes,
Angela

Thanks Angela, I'm doing okay. And what a change it is. Shreveport LA TO Vancouver WA.

A totally new world for me for sure. Everything's organic (which I love) and food is cheaper than Shreveport. STILL getting used to all the hills and mountains. That's the reason I can't have chickens right now. Maybe later.

 

[LindaB220]

Hope you will find a place to have chickens again someday and I am sorry for your loss. Well wishes from Tennessee

Thanks sweetie, hoping to be able to get chicks later. Not much yard. Large deck for my container garden and very little flat area. Maybe I'll get tiny ones.

 

[LindaB220]

Keep working on the idea with your just-slaughtered cockerels ... it will just "click" at some point. If anything, it is worth it to me just for the couple months' worth of peace for growing out, even though most of my attempts have been slips. One thing I read in an old caponizing book/let is that folks used some of the milder-tempered capons as chick nannies, and I have been trying that out here. Two of my good chick nannies ended up showing as slips, but one raised two groups of cockerels (one group was caponized, and the one full capon is my new chick nanny) and the other raised up all the splash Silkies.

Personally, I don't think of it as being a prepper to be so interested in the production value of our chickens. Might be part of why I joined and hang around this thread!

I see it as a more old-fashioned pragmatic mindset of demonstrating why our specific breeds or crosses were kept and done back in the day before our food production got so ... factory-like. I am also firmly convinced our eggs and chicken just taste better than what is available in the grocery stores nowadays, just as vegetables from the garden taste better than the produce section stuff in the grocery.

I'm preaching to the choir here ...

The choir indeed. I love this outlook. Great going with your new nannies.

 

[gjensen]

To be clear. I believe that capons are an excellent way to enjoy poultry meat. In particular, out of season. I would certainly prefer capons over old roasting birds.

 

[Kassaundra]

To chose not to caponize I didn't have a problem with. To raise 8-12 week birds and eat those I don't have a problem with. To process the 14 -20 week old teens I don't have a problem with. I don't have a problem w/ any way anyone decides to raise their own chickens, for food, for show, for pets is not an issue to me at all. My objection was and is and will remain someone from a position of authority stating opinions as fact things they don't have experience with. For the record I didn't say the person in question had no experience w/ caponizing I asked if they did.

I have never raised 8 week birds I do not know what kind of cost there is to raising them. They may very well be the least expensive way to raise meat, but that method also has you dependent on the hatcheries. Birds caponized and raised through the growing season w/ plenty of bugs and free ranging, hatched from your own chickens eggs, I don't see how they are any / that much more expensive then the 14 - 20 weekers, and no crowing, fighting, hen harassing, no need for extra housing (if isolating them to keep those bad behaviors at bay until processed).

 

[hellbender]

Change of heart...lol