BREEDING FOR PRODUCTION...EGGS AND OR MEAT.

[southernmomma]

I can see a working knowledge of genetics is in my future. The Reece DC are beautiful, as you know I fancy them. What happens if the covered/coveree are reversed? Don't answer that, lol, I'll figure it out.
Annoyingly my intellectual plans are 5 years removed from my reality.


M

 

[Arielle]

Quote: When I was seriously raising sheep, I gave the mothers scores on a number of mothering catagories, it figured in on which lambs to keep as replacements. A first time mother got her data recorded, and was given a seond chance to get her act together. If not, out the door. Over the years our lambing and rearing became much easier as the girls could do it all without me.

I expect a hen could be given scores, too, and selection made when that became an important factor.

 

[Arielle]

Quote: THere was a time that I would have liked this too. THey still do this with some breeds of horses. All in the same day, same facilites, same handlers, same riders, and then evaluated several times over months. SHeep too.

What it doesn't account for is how that bird performs at the farm it was bred on. I suspect most lines and farms develop together in a synergistic relationship. Remember Bob saying a line needed several generations to adapt to the new home if it moved north? This makes sense now.

 

[Arielle]

The right two strains would take some trying. They will not all "nick". First you are looking for in the parent strains what you want to find in the offspring. Maybe some compensating traits.

The first chicken of tomorrow contests were won by New Hampshires. The later trials were won by New Hampshire Cornish crosses. Which of course led to specialized Plymouth Rock strains x Cornish.

Today they are not simply Cornish x Rocks as the nick name implies, but this is where the notion comes from. Originally they were simple crosses. The White Plymouth Rock developed for faster meatier growth had an advantage over the New Hampshire from the color of the feathers.

This is where the notion that the New Hampshires should be a lighter color by the New Hampshire bantam breeders. Early meat strains were lighter in color and had a light under color. The Standard New Hampshire is a dual purpose bird and not purely a meat bird.
There was laying strains of New Hampshire also. They were competing quite well in the laying trials, before they figured out it did not make sense to go with the heavier breeds for egg laying alone. These birds were darker in color, and of course had lighter weights.

Eventually the lighter Leghorns, and specialized strains of Rhode Island Reds took over. These Rhode Island Reds were not the Standard Rhode Island Reds.

This is also the time period where there was a split between commercial interests and breed enthusiasts. Purely commercial interests led these strains away from the breed type and character. They developed them into something new all together. We still see that split today. It is discussed on this board all of the time.

I find myself in the middle of the two extremes. I am not interested in purely exhibition poultry. Ornamentals are not my thing, but if I was going to go towards the other extreme, I would develop something new all together. I actually like the idea of it, but have not decided to make a decade long commitment for no real good reason.
What does fascinate me about the idea is that we have access to genetics that we did not have access to in the past. We have access to the best performing birds that the world has ever known.

I guess that I would prefer to try to rebuild a strain of a breed with some history. That holds my interest more. The challenge of breeding birds that are respectable in quality and perform reasonably well. These birds are exceedingly rare.

If the color of the feathers was not a concern, I would like to try the Reese Dark Cornish over New Hampshires. The New Hampshires on the female side for the egg laying ability. It would be easier to get some numbers on the ground.

I've eaten a few dark feathered birds. After all the work to defeather and get in the rosting pan, I no longer care about a feather here or there, and the dark stains don't bother me at all . It tastes just as good . Of course buyers are more critical and the current commercial market has spoiled us all rotten. There are days I would just like to be a lemming.

 

[gjensen]

Some pin feathers does not bother me either. It does some though. The two breeds that I have, have a light enough under color that it does not matter anyways.

 

[gjensen]

THere was a time that I would have liked this too. THey still do this with some breeds of horses. All in the same day, same facilites, same handlers, same riders, and then evaluated several times over months. SHeep too.

What it doesn't account for is how that bird performs at the farm it was bred on. I suspect most lines and farms develop together in a synergistic relationship. Remember Bob saying a line needed several generations to adapt to the new home if it moved north? This makes sense now.

That was a debate then. Whether or not some strains adapted to the setting as well as others. I tend to feel that the birds adapt similarly, but I imagine that there are exceptions. I still think you get a pretty good feel for them, and I think it is irrelevant concerning the growers. Just as long as everything is equal. I think it would affect the layers the most, since they would be housed in individual cages.

The solution is all of them being raised at that location, and all the same way. If they are raised all of the same, they do not know any better. On the other hand sending a free ranged bird to a cage, might take a substantial adjustment period. Enough to affect the numbers.

I do not think it takes real time for birds to adapt to new ground. Other than sending them from cool weather to really hot weather. That is a big pill to swallow immediately. I think the biggest adaptation is new birds adapting to new ground where other birds are being kept. There are different pathogens to adapt to. Every poultry yard has them, and they are not all the same. Otherwise, I think the adaptation is not a big deal. If the ground is "clean" and the weather similar, they do not miss a beat.

 

[Arielle]

Quote: When you have a reason to learn it , genetics is in theory easy. Applying it to a group can be frustrating as the unexpected regularly happens and breeding stock is eliminated from the breeding pool due to injury or death. In large genetic pools ( hundred of birds) progress is not dependent on the one superior male or female. It is a group effort to slowly move the population in the desired direction.

I had an uncle that spent a life time breeding superior racing pigeons. He started at 16, and still had birds the day he died in his '80's. He didn't tolerate sick birds-- gone. He bred his best racers. If it got lost on the way home, he didn't want it back. Selection.

See you do know something if you figured out why the cornish is the male and the rock is the female. I had to think about it for a minute, too.

 

[gjensen]

I can see a working knowledge of genetics is in my future. The Reece DC are beautiful, as you know I fancy them. What happens if the covered/coveree are reversed? Don't answer that, lol, I'll figure it out.
Annoyingly my intellectual plans are 5 years removed from my reality.


M

The inheritance would be similar. The difference being the amount of eggs the hens laid. You would want the more productive layers on the female side. Unless it did not matter how many you got out and when.

 

[Arielle]

Quote: THere is definitely some value to this type of standarized testing. IT is possible to broad en the scope to working free range or penned birds.

WHat I see here are differences between which birds like to cover a lot of territory and which do not. I had a group of BO last summer that continued to hop the fence and became coyote food, leaving the pullets that didn't hop to new territory. I expect this had some selection on the current population. I can't help thinking that groups of birds have different approached to how they use land and that cannot be measured so easily in a standarized test.
In the testing program for the horses one of the rules was that the feature being evaluated had to be measureable. Either literally( objective) or via well trained judges ( subjective)

At one sheep station, rams were brought in by a specific age by farmers for testing. It could be done with chickens as well.

 

[LindaB220]

I realize that sex link hybrids can't be bred true but I was wondering around and came across this thread on ISA Brown's by Fred. Promising.....

https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/660815/breeding-sex-links-third-generation