BREEDING FOR PRODUCTION...EGGS AND OR MEAT.

[southernmomma]

Dominique has a lot of potential in a low input homestead type setting. We tend to favor the heavy hitters (big eaters), and as a result more grain dependent. There is value in the medium sized large fowl. The large dual purpose breeds became the standard with the mechanization of agriculture and cheap grain. Meat production followed along with the masses moving to the city.

Dominique in their earliest years were game mixes. The name is actually the color pattern, and only the game breeders use the name to describe that color now. They become more standardized along the way, and the standardization that called for single comes in the Rocks and rose comb in the Dominique killed the breed. The shift was to the single combed Rocks, where before it could have been hard to distinguish between the two (earliest years in a more crude form).

For whoever does not know, I will let them guess where the name comes from.

Dominique can certainly be called the earliest American breed, but is does help to understand that their type was not as refined as it is now.

I do like this breed and think they are still overlooked. A very practical option.

There's a neat project that someone did using Doms. I think they're Centraorchid? He set up a flock to live completely off the grid so to speak, calls them the Missouri Dominique's ; not sure whatever the outcome was but Doms are most certainly a homesteading fowl. The name Dominique has Haitian origin....I think they contributed a bird to the Dom makeup.

@mithious who's line did you find that is reliably broody? How cool would it be to have a flock of broodies in 2 years time~ properly managed you would never have to buy another chicken!! They are a neat bird.

M

 

[hellbender]

I think your plan to unplug sounds divine!!
Have you ever explored the expat community in Belize?

M

Thank you! While much of this trip is business related, it's hard to imagine going to Costa Rica or Brasil and not having some fun.

If I were 30 or so years younger, I suspect a lot more fun would enter the picture.

I have never been to Belize but I'm sure it's a beautiful country. Perhaps a little warmer than I would really want to endure on a long time basis. The trip to Brasil is in part intended to provide me with some R&R, business is still the main point for being there. I have been to Porto Alegre two times before and I truly love the area...very friendly people there. I have an agent looking at a property that I'm considering as an investment. I doubt I will ever become an expat but if I should be forced to leave the USA, I intend to have a place to live in a part of the world where I have some friends and connections.

FYI, there is a property situated about 25 miles from the center of the city that the agent has been working on for me for some time. The farm house and most of the outbuildings are made of quarried stone. It is now being occupied by long-time tenants and that will be just fine...for now. Jason and I have decided to take one vacation per year and this will certainly be a destination for me...he of course, can go where he pleases but he's seems very keen on this property and the part of the world. He's seen quite a lot of the rest of it, in less than a relaxing atmosphere.

 

[Arielle]

Arielle how did you can your turkey last year? Would you share your method please? And if you have done chicken I would also like to know how you did that please.

I definitely followed the instructions with the canner as canning meat does require a long time at a specific pressure. THis makes the meat safe to eat. meat CANNOT be canned by water bath method.

I roast my birds first. I can squish 3 turkey hens in my giant roasting pan, and roast for several hours. I want the meat to fall off the bones. THen I can pack the cold meat into the cans, do leave a lot of head room when adding meat juices or water and spices, clean top of jar well and place a sterilized lid on top. crew on lid finger tight = no need to bee super tight as the canning process will suck the lid down and make a vaccuum.

When I canned with my mother some 35 years ago I remembered she used a special lifter to handle the hot jars. THis is a must. I have had one waiting in mu kitchen draw waiting to be used! lol

When lifting out hot jar, do so carefully and set on cotton towels. When cool, the next day, check all the seals. Eat up any not sealed properly or re- can.

I ws terrified the first time I did it last summer, but it really is easy if the procedures are followed


I added different spices in all the different batches: salt, garlic salt, poultry herbs. THe latter is not suggested but I wanted to test it for myself.

Also for the chicken , I put in the bones as we all need a good source of calcium and apparently it leaches into the broth . . . .

Oh when cans are cooled wash the outside if the broth has boiled out and coated the cans with fats and broth.

I think the process may sound overwhelming but by following step by step instruction in the canning book, it was very easy.

 

[chickadoodles]

I definitely followed the instructions with the canner as canning meat does require a long time at a specific pressure. THis makes the meat safe to eat. meat CANNOT be canned by water bath method.

I roast my birds first. I can squish 3 turkey hens in my giant roasting pan, and roast for several hours. I want the meat to fall off the bones. THen I can pack the cold meat into the cans, do leave a lot of head room when adding meat juices or water and spices, clean top of jar well and place a sterilized lid on top. crew on lid finger tight = no need to bee super tight as the canning process will suck the lid down and make a vaccuum.

When I canned with my mother some 35 years ago I remembered she used a special lifter to handle the hot jars. THis is a must. I have had one waiting in mu kitchen draw waiting to be used! lol

When lifting out hot jar, do so carefully and set on cotton towels. When cool, the next day, check all the seals. Eat up any not sealed properly or re- can.

I ws terrified the first time I did it last summer, but it really is easy if the procedures are followed


I added different spices in all the different batches: salt, garlic salt, poultry herbs. THe latter is not suggested but I wanted to test it for myself.

Also for the chicken , I put in the bones as we all need a good source of calcium and apparently it leaches into the broth . . . .

Oh when cans are cooled wash the outside if the broth has boiled out and coated the cans with fats and broth.

I think the process may sound overwhelming but by following step by step instruction in the canning book, it was very easy.

Thanks so much for sharing your method with me! I appreciate it so much!

My brother bought me the caner last year but he took the book out and kept it for the recipes, Ugh!
That is why I asked you how you did it? Do you recall how long you left your jars in your caner even after you cooked your birds first or how long you cooked the chicken in the caner if it was raw? I was wondering if I should cook the birds first or can them raw?

 

[ronott1]

Thanks so much for sharing your method with me! I appreciate it so much!

My brother bought me the caner last year but he took the book out and kept it for the recipes, Ugh!
That is why I asked you how you did it? Do you recall how long you left your jars in your caner even after you cooked your birds first or how long you cooked the chicken in the caner if it was raw? I was wondering if I should cook the birds first or can them raw?

You should be able to get the instructions and recipes from the Manufacture web site for the Pressure Canner.

 

[BGMatt]

Well that thread got busy in a hurry, just some general points.

1. Standard bred birds will generally do lay longer and produce more eggs over a lifetime (regardless of the finite number of eggs thing) because they have the larger bodies and normal growth rates that the laying process is not as much of a strain on the anatomy of a bird. I have never had an issue of prolapse of eggbound or any other laying related health issue since I ditched my last hatchery birds almost 20 years ago.

2. I would not judge standard bred birds based on difficulties experienced by "breeders" here on BYC. Issues such as laying and fertility are often a line by line and breeder by breeder situation. It is very rare someone that knows what they're doing breeds themselves into a corner, standard bred or not.

3. All birds and breeds have their purpose, but if meat is truly part of one of your goals, you won't get much off a commercially bred "dual purpose" fowl. Not when the breeds are half the size they should be which means half the meat they should have. Of course this is also part of wise breed selection. A hatchery Jersey Giant for instance might weigh in at 7 lbs, and that's plenty of meat for many so they serve that purpose just as well as the 13 lb birds called for by the standard. Of course you could also raise a standard bred Catalana, or Andalusian, or similar breed and get equal meat production and egg production if not better compared to the hatchery bird, while also helping maintain the rich poultry history.

4. No matter what type of stock you start with, hatchery or standard bred, if you do not know how to select for production qualities in your birds, and how to manage them properly, you will either never have good results, or you will lose the good results that are there.

5. Really stressing without proper management and nutrition you will not see the productive results you could. So many are fixated on replicating what the birds did 100+ years ago. WHY? Would you want a car that has the capabilities of 100 years ago? With modern nutrition and breeding practices even our standard bred birds should be able to leave the old timers and their birds in the DUST. The poultry world is so resistant to change it's almost frightening. There is zero reason for it.

Now my own tangent that came to mind while writing this post, nutrition. We need to realize two things, three actually. First, nutrition knowledge has advanced since the early 1900's. Second, what is produced commercially feed wise is the bare minimum for highly specialized commercial birds of today, vegetarian diets made of cheap ingredients. Third, you are not doing any favors following some thrown together recipe or supplement program some amateur has thrown together on the internet. Or basing our feeding program on what some farmer did in 1900. Balancing a diet is no joke and when not done properly can have a severe negative impact. Nutrient balance, both micro and macro, amino acid balance are all critically important to really push our birds to what they do. If you don't have the resources to find a true nutritionist (not a hobby nutritionist, see the degree) to help formulate a diet, try using gamebird feed for standard bred birds, it's far closer to the needs of our real birds than the stuff that is made with the drastically different commercial birds in mind, and don't mess with it by throwing in a bunch of odd stuff. That's fine for sustaining birds and all, but to really push production? Not so much.

I'll get off my little soapbox here. Hopefully the first 5 points are helpful and result in some good further discussion.

 

[chickadoodles]

You should be able to get the instructions and recipes from the Manufacture web site for the Pressure Canner.

Thanks Ron! I did not think of that... lol

 

[ronott1]

Quote:

Thanks Ron! I did not think of that... lol

I have done this before. It is convenient because the PDF file can be accessed easily on your computer--or if you use a cloud storage, on Smart Phones and Tablets.

 

[hellbender]

Well that thread got busy in a hurry, just some general points.

1. Standard bred birds will generally do lay longer and produce more eggs over a lifetime (regardless of the finite number of eggs thing) because they have the larger bodies and normal growth rates that the laying process is not as much of a strain on the anatomy of a bird. I have never had an issue of prolapse of eggbound or any other laying related health issue since I ditched my last hatchery birds almost 20 years ago.

2. I would not judge standard bred birds based on difficulties experienced by "breeders" here on BYC. Issues such as laying and fertility are often a line by line and breeder by breeder situation. It is very rare someone that knows what they're doing breeds themselves into a corner, standard bred or not.

3. All birds and breeds have their purpose, but if meat is truly part of one of your goals, you won't get much off a commercially bred "dual purpose" fowl. Not when the breeds are half the size they should be which means half the meat they should have. Of course this is also part of wise breed selection. A hatchery Jersey Giant for instance might weigh in at 7 lbs, and that's plenty of meat for many so they serve that purpose just as well as the 13 lb birds called for by the standard. Of course you could also raise a standard bred Catalana, or Andalusian, or similar breed and get equal meat production and egg production if not better compared to the hatchery bird, while also helping maintain the rich poultry history.

4. No matter what type of stock you start with, hatchery or standard bred, if you do not know how to select for production qualities in your birds, and how to manage them properly, you will either never have good results, or you will lose the good results that are there.

5. Really stressing without proper management and nutrition you will not see the productive results you could. So many are fixated on replicating what the birds did 100+ years ago. WHY? Would you want a car that has the capabilities of 100 years ago? With modern nutrition and breeding practices even our standard bred birds should be able to leave the old timers and their birds in the DUST. The poultry world is so resistant to change it's almost frightening. There is zero reason for it.

Now my own tangent that came to mind while writing this post, nutrition. We need to realize two things, three actually. First, nutrition knowledge has advanced since the early 1900's. Second, what is produced commercially feed wise is the bare minimum for highly specialized commercial birds of today, vegetarian diets made of cheap ingredients. Third, you are not doing any favors following some thrown together recipe or supplement program some amateur has thrown together on the internet. Or basing our feeding program on what some farmer did in 1900. Balancing a diet is no joke and when not done properly can have a severe negative impact. Nutrient balance, both micro and macro, amino acid balance are all critically important to really push our birds to what they do. If you don't have the resources to find a true nutritionist (not a hobby nutritionist, see the degree) to help formulate a diet, try using gamebird feed for standard bred birds, it's far closer to the needs of our real birds than the stuff that is made with the drastically different commercial birds in mind, and don't mess with it by throwing in a bunch of odd stuff. That's fine for sustaining birds and all, but to really push production? Not so much.

I'll get off my little soapbox here. Hopefully the first 5 points are helpful and result in some good further discussion.

Matt, under ordinary circumstances I would be anxious to discuss your 5 points in length but frankly, I've reached the point where I just don't think this argument is useful...certainly not to me.

I'm going to go out and kill hundreds of very productive birds because NONE of them come near to meeting the SOP, despite the fact that they lay like leghorns.

RON

 

[BGMatt]

Matt, under ordinary circumstances I would be anxious to discuss your 5 points in length but frankly, I've reached the point where I just don't think this argument is useful...certainly not to me.

I'm going to go out and kill hundreds of very productive birds because NONE of them come near to meeting the SOP, despite the fact that they lay like leghorns.

RON

I understand why, but I'm sad to see you pass on the standard breeding project. Always need talented and knowledgable breeders, there's not enough of them.