BREEDING FOR PRODUCTION...EGGS AND OR MEAT.

[Arielle]

Quote: I left a msg for him on the Homesteading thread . . will see when he is able to pop in and perhaps he will have an answer.

 

[LindaB220]

I was reading the breeding section of "Storey's Guide to Raising Chickens" and read the part where birds that grow too quickly in reference to the SOP should be culled. If I remember the reason was potential health problems. I was curious if others do the same. Is it more for SOP breeders and not dual purpose breeders?

In reference to the idea of buying zip ties on Ebay; if you have 10 different colors do you double up colors if you have 11+ birds in a hatch? Maybe have a red on the right leg of one chick and a red on the left of another chick? It's a good idea because I have a bunch of very small colored zip ties!

Yes, it's a good idea. Call one Red L and Red R

 

[gjensen]

If you have a goal age to put into the freezer, would that weight at that age be the most helpful?? Just because a bird fills out heavier than another at a later date, how is that helpful?

I noticed my boys start running the girls-- I would think they should be culled by then or put into bachleor pens out of sight of the girls, to finish the selection as breeder stock.

I haven't figured out how to free range girls and boys separately. WOnder how YHF does it??

Arielle to your first question, it is never simple. I a going to say this as a general comment, because I do not know what breed you are talking about. You do not want all breeds to grow out especially fast. Two breeds that come to mind. Minorca and Jersey Giants. Minorca trends towards hatchery type if selected this way.
Plymouth Rocks can trend towards the clumsy side if they are selected to be too big too fast. You want them to keep some athleticism. You do not want these to grow out too slow either, it is a balance that you are looking for.

Generally speaking, decide on a target date that you think fits the breed and strain. You can change the date to a different time in the next generation based on what you learn in the first. That date probably should start where you think the breed should be ready to process. Evaluate them at that date. Process the underperforming birds. Keep the best performing birds to grow and select from. For many breeds 16 wks is a good time.

You might have to temper your expectations after year one, or decide earlier is better. If you think they should do better than that, you can incrementally move the date back from yer to year as you make progress.

The pullets and cockerels grow out better if separated when you can tell who is who. The cockerels will drive the pullets crazy, and they will not make the gains they could because all of their energy chasing pullets and competing with each other. I raise my cockerels in a separate house, run, and fenced yard.

Managing the males after this point is a management challenge for many people. If you can yard them where they cannot see pullets or hens, they will get along with each other much longer. That is ideal. When they begin to fight too much, I pen them up individually. When that is varies from strain to strain, and breed to breed.

Everyone finds their own way to match their own style and ideals. It is a heck of a lot simpler when you only have one breed.

I am speaking generally, and not saying how to do it. Just sharing some thoughts to consider as you sort these things out.

 

[gjensen]

I was reading the breeding section of "Storey's Guide to Raising Chickens" and read the part where birds that grow too quickly in reference to the SOP should be culled. If I remember the reason was potential health problems. I was curious if others do the same. Is it more for SOP breeders and not dual purpose breeders?

In reference to the idea of buying zip ties on Ebay; if you have 10 different colors do you double up colors if you have 11+ birds in a hatch? Maybe have a red on the right leg of one chick and a red on the left of another chick? It's a good idea because I have a bunch of very small colored zip ties!

You have to consider the breed. They are not all the same. You have to find a time frame that makes sense for your breed and strain. They are where they are to start off with. After a generation, you get a feel for where they are and whether or not they need improvement. The "rules" are not universal. For example New Hampshires have a good breed type for growing out and processing at an early age. They were bred for the purpose. The same with Delaware. It would be a mistake to want the same for a Minorca.

There would be/could be a too early for NHs to, but do not worry about it. You will never get there. 14wks is a good goal for the New Hampshires right now. 12 wks is not too soon. This is a fryer age, not a roasting age. New Hampshires should be built for good early fryers. Sussex type is better suited for later roasting fowl.

Toe punching is much more practical than bands. I think so anyways. You have to monitor the bands too much as they grow. Banding them is a good idea when you do not have to worry about it. They are growing so fast early on that it can get away from you.

 

[Arielle]

Quote:

I double band too at times, especially when trying to sort out the roosters.

Quote: Jersey giants intrigue me. THe hens take somehting like 2 years to grow out and while at first I thought HOw aweful, and who would want a bird like that . . . I later realized that kind of growth could be excellent for a moderate climate with low food availability. I really do wish I knew the history as I"m sure that is the driving reason for the slow growth.

On the other hand my goal was to have all my freezer birds in the freezer in the fall when the weather is getting colder and the insects and vegetation starts to decline. THe caveate to this are that the cool weather grasses are growing well, and the gardens ( if I did my job) are producing more than enough food for us and the chickens. SO this has me thinking about the best dates to hatch chicks. HIstorically I have raised the chicks in the house and they have worn out their welcome. ALternatives are limited as I don't have electricity to my barns per se. I keep coming back to the value of broodies, but this is a totally different management set up. I would like to use less electricity to brood the chicks, and yet I wonder what the cost differential is between a red light bulb and a few hens that eat . . . .

I'm still struggling with re-creating the wheel !

Quote: I have heard that sometimes the holes will heal and couldn't figure away around that. THen when my buckeyes arrived already toe punched ( as agreed) the web didn't have the traditional hole but rather the web was cut like a slice. Seems like a good way to prevent the growing back issue . . . .

I find zip ties all over he place, no matter what the brand; they break!

 

[gjensen]

Toe punched holes can fill in. It is wise to check them and re punch them if necessary. I have thought about cutting the webs, but have never done it.

 

[Arielle]

I really don't know how Chris did the cut. It didn't have the rounded edge, or perhap applied in that manner it doesn't look round. IDK how he did the "toe punch"

 

[knittychickadee]

I really don't know how Chris did the cut. It didn't have the rounded edge, or perhap applied in that manner it doesn't look round. IDK how he did the "toe punch"

I prefer to snip a v in the web with a teeny pair of scissors; he may do something like that? I found out by accident that I preferred the scissors, couldn't find my toe punch after a hatch and liked it so much better I stuck with it. In the past I didn't do the hole punch up in the web, I did a moon shape with the punch on the edge of the web. I never liked the idea of the hole with free ranging and all the digging and scratching they do.

 

[Arielle]

Quote: I see you have BUckeyes too! Awesome!!

DO you mean you are concerned that with a hole in the foot, they might catch something in the hole?? BUt not with the moon cut or the scissor method?

I have opened the door for my 2 moth olds to go out and exposed to more coccidea and enjoy the out door ( coop almost finished) and they travel all over-- took a couple days but they do cruise a distance already. ANd saw one this morning digging in the leaves!

 

[seventreesfarm]

I did a lot of research before settling on zip ties. It is a pain until the growth rate settles down, but I'm not running huge batches of chicks at one time. I also like to be able to see who's who at a glance when I'm working with my birds.

With 10 colors to work with, I double band if needed. My spreadsheet has columns for left & right legs, and if I get really crazy I can stack more than one band on a leg. Usually by the time they are laying age I don't have so many per hatch and can use fewer bands.

I start with one color on one leg for the first 6-8 weeks. Then as I set aside culls and get ready to mix hatches, I add a band on the other leg for which roo was involved. Now that I have multiple generation from the same pairs, I will add a band so each keeper has a unique ID.

It's a good way to check the condition of my flock, look for hidden weight issues, parasites, etc. Well worth the hassle to me.