BREEDING FOR PRODUCTION...EGGS AND OR MEAT.

[mklorber]

Since you brought up prepotency...

Have you read "The Call of the Hen" by Hogan? I have just finished with it and love the pictures for evaluation. It was written so long ago I'm not sure if everything he describes is still considered accurate. I don't have a mentor nearby so I was going to assess my birds using his method. If most of it is still valid then it would save me from having to trap nest.

He discusses prepotency as related to head/skull size and shape? Is this something you find to hold true? I have read a number of times on here about wanting larger heads (most notably from Fred's Hens).

MK

 

[seventreesfarm]

Since you brought up prepotency...

Have you read "The Call of the Hen" by Hogan? I have just finished with it and love the pictures for evaluation. It was written so long ago I'm not sure if everything he describes is still considered accurate. I don't have a mentor nearby so I was going to assess my birds using his method. If most of it is still valid then it would save me from having to trap nest.

He discusses prepotency as related to head/skull size and shape? Is this something you find to hold true? I have read a number of times on here about wanting larger heads (most notably from Fred's Hens).

MK

I'm not totally sold on Hogan's head size/shape claims, but I haven't tested them myself. His book is a good resource though.

I like the ALBC's selection brochures, since they condense down a lot of old school info http://www.livestockconservancy.org/index.php/heritage/internal/chicken-manual

 

[bmvf]

How many daughters do you want to 'prove' a roo?

In the dairy business 100 daughters is considered 'proven' and 1000 gives a much better representation.

 

[ronott1]

How many daughters do you want to 'prove' a roo?

In the dairy business 100 daughters is considered 'proven' and 1000 gives a much better representation.

Daughters would have nothing to do with a Rooster--I posted a couple days ago about the hen determining Gender in chickens.

Let me know if you want me to post the information again.

 

[gjensen]

Hogan's "Call Of The Hen" is a good book to read. Some of the information is dated, there is a little hype mixed in, but much of the concepts are solid. He was pretty sharp, and knew the birds.

As was mentioned, the ALBC has a condensed version. The concepts used there has it's roots in the observations that Hogan made.

It is more about culling than breeder selection.

You cannot beat trap nesting, if you can do it practically. I cannot. I wish that I could.

With a condensed version of the Hogan method, and tracking the measurable that you cannot see by looking at the birds, you can do well. A small flock owner has an advantage in being able to know the individual birds. Getting to know them over time, and tracking them over an entire laying cycle. A small flock owner has a disadvantage in quantity. You cannot test and prove as many birds.

I think that head size and shape is relevant to the fitness of the bird. I do not believe that it makes a bird pre potent or not. Not as I understand and use the term. It is still important. I also like to see an eye filling a socket. It has seamed that it is an indicator of good health and vigor. I do not like seeing eyes that do not fill the socket. Misshapen eyes bug me to.

One of the thing that fascinates me about the hobby, is that it is challenging, and there are a lot of things to consider.

 

[gjensen]

How many daughters do you want to 'prove' a roo?

In the dairy business 100 daughters is considered 'proven' and 1000 gives a much better representation.

I never came to a definite conclusion. I have asked this question myself. The math seams to say that 16 would be enough offspring from a pair, when you consider how recessive traits work etc. I do not think there is a too many. The more the better.

You probably can get a good idea with 8. One thing we can do with birds is hatch more offspring. 8 females and 12 hatched eggs should provide enough variability to know. Even 4 females one year and four females the next year will tell you if he is helping or hurting.

A technical number is something I do not know. It just seams that being able to evaluate more offspring makes a difference.

 

[seventreesfarm]

Here's a link to a pic of a nice hen shape - http://www.pimlottspoultry.co.uk/images/DSC_0175.JPG?623

I like the triangular tail and how it sets low into the body. I also like how the back end of the hen widens up for more room for egg production. My Marans have a deeper breast/keel that gives them kind of a U shape that I don't like. I guess that's to accommodate more breast muscle for meat production.

The head is a little small. I have one hen with kind of a twin dome shaped head that I like that I am trying to breed into my flock. I'll get a picture of her this weekend.

But just for general outline, I like this shape.

Here's a link to a Marans type hen with the U shape http://www.smallholderfeed.co.uk/uploaded/image/Articles/brown-hen-4.gif

 

[Turk Raphael]

What kind of dog did you get?

One of the best...a free mongrel!

The sire is a blue heeler and the momma is one of those big guardian type dogs. He should do the job well enough for us since we are going to begin with a different approach. Won't worry about them too much during the day, especially if this pup can grow up and do a good job of routing/intimidating the local preds. I know some will still strike in the day time but they will be worried about where the dog might be. I will try to bond him with the chickens but if that's just not feasible, he will have run of the outer area, between the multiple strands of high tensile electric fence and the inner fence of 4ft Premier poultry fence. He will also have access to our house through a doggie-door...size yet to be determined. He should be near 100 pounds and have a pretty heavy coat.

It's a big litter that is only 3 weeks old so we have time to organize and get a carpenter to install the door.

Really anxious. I love all dogs...especially puppies!

 

[Turk Raphael]

Yay!
There is nothing sweeter than a new puppy. Although I don't envy you the potty training

M

That will be fairly easy with two of us working with him. We will likely have to get one of those military spec crates because I know a lady who shows Rottweilers and when one of her females is in heat, she really has no crate that will hold her stud dog...he just 'King Kongs' his way out and manages to get through doors to the female. He has been known to eat through wooden doors in less that a couple hours

. I can't imagine having a female around but you really can't control what comes down the road!!

and this dog should be far more powerful than even such a power house like a Rottie!!!

It should be easy to teach him where to potty but a bit mre difficult convincing him not to move the furniture around.

 

[chickadoodles]

Turk, I got a terrier mix puppy from a animal hospital. I raised the puppy in the house and around my one day old chicks from the first day. When I go out to feed the chickens in the pens she tries to play with the 4 month old chicks, they peck her nose and she shakes it off and takes off. She can go in the pen with me and just stand there and watch as I feed the birds as long as she gets a treat as well when we are done. I have told her over and over the chicks are babies and I call her a baby. I don't know if that makes any difference but so far it is working. And while she is growing up I have two grown dogs to tend to predators. But I wanted one to be more protective of the chickens.