BREEDING FOR PRODUCTION...EGGS AND OR MEAT.

[dfr1973]

I think that I will finally understand the science but I fear that I can never become the artist.

Not with that mindset! Horse-feathers, I say. You are not trying to coax shapes from stone or clay, nor apply pigment to canvas or paper ... the artistry is looking at these hens and this rooster and thinking which combinations will produce chicks that looks like the picture in your mind labeled, "My ideal chicken." Oh, by science I believe george is referring to the actual scientific method of forming an hypothesis, setting up a trial to *falsify* your hypothesis, testing or observing, collecting data, then seeing if the data supports or refutes your hypothesis. After analyzing your data, then you start the process over to refine your hypothesis or try a new one.

The advice in this entire thread echoes what I hear from gardeners about breeding plants specifically adapted to your personal microclimate (say, your yard/garden). They say to plant seeds in a couple different areas when you first start, then observe where certain plant species do best, then save the seeds from the very best specimens for the following season's plants.

It seems to be the basic and universal premise behind propagation of domesticated species - fish, bird, mammal, or plant.

 

[Arielle]

Quote:
All endeavors are a combination of art and science. What good is any scientific study with out the art of when and how to apply it????????????

 

[3riverschick]

I think that I will finally understand the science but I fear that I can never become the artist.

Sure you can. Just stop looking at inferior birds. Consider only the very best. Hang out with experienced folk and don't be shy about contacting elite experts for advice. if you are critiquing birds, do it with the experts, not other learners. Double check everything you read and are told. Unless it comes from an elite expert like Walt Leonard. Have a science question? Find a researcher who is dealing with it and ask. They love to talk about their projects. Buy 5 books and study the carefully and often. The Van Dort duo, "The Genetics Of Chicken Colours" and "The Genetics Of Chicken Extremities", The APA SOP of 2010, One or 2 classic books written by breeders of your breed, and that wonderful little online volume at www.archive.org , "Breeding Laws" by Card.
Once you feel confident about knowledge in your breed, you will feel more sure about the ideal image you are forming in your minds eye.
Best,
Karen

 

[3riverschick]

This was written by a legendary breeder of English Labrador Retrievers. It is from her book, Reaching For the Stars ; Advanced Labrador Breeding". Even the Queen of England admired her dogs. It is applicable to any species. Just change the dog wording to cock, hen, chick, etc. Notice her sage advice about a key to moving out of the "middle-range breeders" into the category of "good breeders" is to stop accepting advice and learning from the "railbirds" and other learners. In other words, check out everything other learners share with you with the experts before implementing it. Especially do not accept other learner's opinions of what constitutes proper breed type and breed hallmarks without checking with your breed experts first. Otherwise you run the risk of corrupting your artist's eye with improper information.
The seven stage apprenticeship for breeders.
http://www.wolfweb.com.au/acd/sevenages.html

 

[gjensen]

I think that I will finally understand the science but I fear that I can never become the artist.

I hope that I have not been discouraging.

You do not have to become an artist, but you do have to gain an appreciation for it. For symmetry, balance, etc.

It will all come if you remain interested.

The most important thing is to enjoy the birds, and growing out a batch of chicks every year. For as long as we enjoy it enough to continue, we will continue learning. Watching those birds grow out every year is a good teacher.

 

[bmvf]

I am at day 10 of my hatch and candled a few eggs. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I have doubts about the hatchability of this set. I made some errors pre-incubation and it was very cold collecting eggs. So I chose 3 of the eggs that were collected first and have the least chance of hatching. All three appeared to be fertile. Should I check them all? Do I need to worry about having them out of the incubator long enough to check them all? How easy is it to toss good eggs and/or keep bad eggs?

 

[ocap]

My Australorp Cock is in with his daughters this evening. We have a ten day forecast of highs above 32F so...... hatching season begins.

 

[Arielle]

I am at day 10 of my hatch and candled a few eggs. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I have doubts about the hatchability of this set. I made some errors pre-incubation and it was very cold collecting eggs. So I chose 3 of the eggs that were collected first and have the least chance of hatching. All three appeared to be fertile. Should I check them all? Do I need to worry about having them out of the incubator long enough to check them all? How easy is it to toss good eggs and/or keep bad eggs?

Eggs rarely go rotten to the point of expoloding. . . .If that is what you are concerned about. I wait until I can see something for sure at 10 days or so for embryo development.( PRior to that I candle for proper development of the air cell.) Be patient!

No need to check everyone. Unless you want to. SOme newer incubators have a 1 hour cool down now to mimic broody hen taking her daily break.

One of my buckeyes has gone broody. Doesn't she know it is really really cold ? THe snow is crunchy this morning and a blizzard is coming in to night.

 

[neopolitancrazy]

  ...The most important thing is to enjoy the birds, and growing out a batch of chicks every year. For as long as we enjoy it enough to continue, we will continue learning. Watching those birds grow out every year is a good teacher.

I know this isn't hockey, but a saying attributed to Wayne Gretsky comes to mind..."I miss 100% of the shots I don't take." So jump into the ring and take a shot at breeding chickens, it can be a lot of fun. None of us hatched out one day knowing all about this hobby, we just got started and kept trying.
Best wishes,
Angela

 

[gjensen]

I am at day 10 of my hatch and candled a few eggs. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I have doubts about the hatchability of this set. I made some errors pre-incubation and it was very cold collecting eggs. So I chose 3 of the eggs that were collected first and have the least chance of hatching. All three appeared to be fertile. Should I check them all? Do I need to worry about having them out of the incubator long enough to check them all? How easy is it to toss good eggs and/or keep bad eggs?

I candle every single egg, tossing all of the clears and those that quit developing. I do this by day 10. I am not religious about exactly when. Somewhere between 7-10. No later than ten.

The length of time that they are outside of the incubator is not critical, if not excessive. A mother hen leaves her nest to drink, eat, and defecate. You will do no harm. I have lost power, and accidently left my incubator off over night (twice). Each time I still had a reasonable hatch considering.

If you are uncertain about an egg or two, hold on to them. Initially, you will be concerned about tossing good eggs, but after a batch or two, you will gain confidence in what you are seeing. You will do no harm to re-check them after a few days.

Crack open the eggs that you decide are no good. Doing that, you will begin to be able to determine why you lost them. If they are fertile. It does help (it did me) to actually see it.

It is rare for one to rot and explode. If you ever have it happen, you will never allow it again. It can ruin a batch.

There are many charts and pictures online that illustrate the process, and trouble shoot problems. Mississippi State University used to have a very good chart for trouble shooting hatching failures. It was good enough that I printed it to keep as a resource. I am not certain whether or not it is still there.

Ron, west coast Ron, would be able to point you to a wealth of resources concerning incubation and hatching.